Range Report / Advice Needed

[DLK]

I took advantage of the good weather today and went out to the Spenceville Shooting Range. This was the first time I've been able to really get an idea of the groups my rifle will shoot since I built it last year. I brought a few different Factory Loads and was shooting from a sled.

My Rifle:
Ballistic Advantage Upper/Lower
Wilson Combat 18" 5.56 Recon Barrel
Wilson Combat Low Profile Gas Block and SS Gas Tube
Faxon Nitride BGC
PSA Classic LPK
Magpul M.O.E Fixed Stock
Seekins Precision SP3R V3 Handguard
Rise Armament Razor Brake
BCM Mod A44 Charging Handle
MFT G27 Pistol Grip
Vortex Strike Eagle


I shot 4 different groupings at 50yds:

Aguila 5.56 62gr FMJBT


Also Aguila 5.56 62gr FMJBT


Hornady Black .223 62gr FMJ


Hornady Match .223 75gr BTHP


Even shooting from the sled I'm having trouble getting a consistent grouping. I know the gun is capable (as seen in Group 2) but I think I'm either flinching as I pull the trigger, or jerking the trigger. Are there any exercises your guys would recommend to help shrink those groups? Thanks in advance!

[CandG]

I'm a terrible teacher, but I'll try my best...

Let the trigger break surprise you. Squeeze the trigger very slowly, slow enough that you don't even know exactly when the gun is going to shoot.

Eventually, you'll learn your trigger so well that that trick won't really work anymore, but by that point you should be a much better shooter anyways.

My rifle shooting used to be all over the place, until I used that trick. My groups shrunk by 90% almost instantly after I started doing that.

[CandG]

Also, next time shoot more than 3 rounds in each group. 3 round groups are just for showing off on the internet - if you really want to learn how good your groups are, shoot 5-10 shot groups instead.

You might be attributing that dime-sized group to better ammo, or some other factor, when maybe it was just a fluke - with only 3 rounds, you'll never know.

For example, this was my 50yd target with my new marlin .22 rifle a couple weeks ago. I fired 8 shots in each quadrant, and 14 in the middle, and can conclusively now say that the groups are a good representation of what the gun/ammo/me are capable of.

[jeremyro]

Couple things.

First, Try 5-10 round groups, that will give you a better idea of real accuracy.

Second, that is actually good groups. Most people just post the tightest one and say this is how tight my rifle shoots. That is not accurate. What I see is a 2moa gun with that ammo that got lucky once. If you are already in a sled there is not much more you can do to get tighter besides practice good trigger control. There are plenty of videos and advice on that but dry fire is going to be your friend.


I don't really see flinching, flinching would show some good groups with fliers, you have perfect groups that are just about 2moa. It is printing exactly as I would expect a rifle in a sled to group.

Lastly it looks like you have a stock trigger unless I missed it in the breakdown. The trigger is one of the largest contributors to accuracy after the barrel. Get at least a nice drop in 3-4 # trigger and that might shrink them a bit. Overall you should be pretty happy with that as a starting place and then work on your actual shooting form, i.e don't use a sled. And shoot practically for whatever discipline you are looking to get into.

Also buy a nicer bipod and get it as low as you can. The higher it is the less stable you are.

[highpower790]

One thing I would do is to clean the barrel after each different group fired.Do this with good ammo and watch your groups shrink.

[CandG]

Great looking rifle by the way, and good shooting as well. Stick with it and you'll be surprised how quickly those groups tighten up.

[Kwikvette]

After some copper fouling, I notice tighter groups.

I'll go ahead and put another 600 rounds or so before I clean it again.

[DLK]

Cocked, thanks for the tips, I'll definitely work on the trigger pulls, I'm still relatively new to shooting so I thought 3 shot groups was the "standard". That being said a 5+ shot grouping would make more sense.

Jeremyro, Yeah its a Milspec trigger, I wanted to get out and shoot before I upgrade components. I know Geissele and Timney both make great triggers, are there any others that you would recommend?

Thanks for all the great advice so far!

[jeremyro]

I use the Rise triggers as they are reasonably priced and I have lots of ARs I even have one in my M110 clone and it shoots very well. Your milage may vary. The two you listed will be a bit nicer but for me this is plenty nice to get me what I need.

http://www.primaryarms.com/rise-armament-black-fallout-ra-140-super-sporting-trigger-ra-140-blk

[DLK]

I use the Rise triggers as they are reasonably priced and I have lots of ARs I even have one in my M110 clone and it shoots very well. Your milage may vary. The two you listed will be a bit nicer but for me this is plenty nice to get me what I need.

http://www.primaryarms.com/rise-arma...ger-ra-140-blk

Awesome, thank you

[CandG]

Cocked, thanks for the tips, I'll definitely work on the trigger pulls, I'm still relatively new to shooting so I thought 3 shot groups was the "standard". That being said a 5+ shot grouping would make more sense.

I look at it this way - if you flip a coin 3 times, the odds of getting "heads" all 3 times are not that far-fetched. 1 in 8. But flip a coin 5 times, and your odds of getting heads all 5 times drops to 1 in 32, and if you flip it 10 times your odds are less than 1 in 1000.

A lot of the groupings you'll see posted on forums, especially 3rd groups, are people who flipped 3 coins in a row, 8 times, and then took a picture of the time they got all "heads".

[jeremyro]

I look at it this way - if you flip a coin 3 times, the odds of getting "heads" all 3 times are not that far-fetched. 1 in 8. But flip a coin 5 times, and your odds of getting heads all 5 times drops to 1 in 32, and if you flip it 10 times your odds are less than 1 in 1000.

Exactly. When I am shooting to test a load I will tend to put at least 10 in one group to get a good idea. Sometimes I do like 20 into one area If you really are shooting under an MOA it should just be a ragged hole. If it is actually shooting 2MOA you will see that really fast.

The other thing to watch for with smaller sample size groups (3round) is the group moving around the bullseye. If you shoot a good group twice on two different targets but one is off to the right and one is low that is a pretty big group if you put them on top of each other. I see that all the time. Someone will post three "good" three shot groups but they will not have the same offset from the bullseye. It is pretty clear at that point that they are cherry picking.