CMP Service Rifle rules changes

[milotrain]

Of course the work for what they were intended. Service rifle competition is about making excellent riflemen though and that's why we shoot irons at 600 yards. The 10 ring is 2 MOA and you should be in it 94% of the time out of 20 shots. I had a brain fart, that's not true. You should be in 18" 100% of the time and 12" around 50% of the time.

[Xrslug]

Makes sense, actual service rifles have had some sort of optic on them for years

That was my thought as well, and so I wonder whether the AMU and USMC will show up with ACOGs? I was assuming that was the intent behind the 4x magnification limit, which (not coincidentally?) is the mag of issue ACOGs. Although I wonder how using a BDC reticle would work for the 600 yard line. Custom reticle for 77 grain 5.56? The current .308 reticle is pretty close on but not exact for a 20" flat top. I note that John Hollinger (White Oak) has been using a Leupold AR scope and said he has been discussing minor changes to the scope with Leupold to make it more suitable for service rifle. But I would at least like to see the service teams use ACOGs. Seems much closer to the "service rifle" ideal.

[Army GI]

That was my thought as well, and so I wonder whether the AMU and USMC will show up with ACOGs? I was assuming that was the intent behind the 4x magnification limit, which (not coincidentally?) is the mag of issue ACOGs. Although I wonder how using a BDC reticle would work for the 600 yard line. Custom reticle for 77 grain 5.56? The current .308 reticle is pretty close on but not exact for a 20" flat top. I note that John Hollinger (White Oak) has been using a Leupold AR scope and said he has been discussing minor changes to the scope with Leupold to make it more suitable for service rifle. But I would at least like to see the service teams use ACOGs. Seems much closer to the "service rifle" ideal.

Agreed.

[milotrain]

The consensus seems to be that the run of the mill boot will show up with an issued rifle (ACOGS), when said boot actually gets interested in the game or gets the go ahead to pursue the badge he/she will likely buy a rifle with irons or run a custom optic for this game. The ACOG is simply not competitive in any way, but at least now they can show up and compete in a service rifle match.

To ensure a consistent zero, it is best to fire one shot off target, allowing the recoil to
stabilize the adjustment mechanism after an adjustment has been made, and then fire
a three shot group on the target.

[Xrslug]

The consensus seems to be that the run of the mill boot will show up with an issued rifle (ACOGS), when said boot actually gets interested in the game or gets the go ahead to pursue the badge he/she will likely buy a rifle with irons or run a custom optic for this game. The ACOG is simply not competitive in any way, but at least now they can show up and compete in a service rifle match.

Interesting. Thanks for that. Seems to me that irons may not be as obsolete as some may think, particularly given that offhand is the most important stage and there is still no weight limit for iron sighted rifles. So if your vision works with irons, it may be that apples to apples the same shooter would do better offhand with a 15 pound iron sighted A2 style rifle rather than a 10 pound rifle with a 4x scope. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out but I think it's the right move to increase the number of casual shooters who can participate. And (the hope is) some subset of those casual shooters will stick with it.

[highpower790]

This whole deal won't change attendance what will change attendance will be the national political climate

[OpenSightsOnly]

Seems to me that irons may not be as obsolete as some may think

I think that lot of folks were not properly taught how to aim, or how to master sight alignment and trigger control. This game taught me that "dolt behind the bolt" is the biggest variable, not equipment or ammo.

[wolf_walker69]

Iron sights will never be obsolete. Obsolescent, sure.
As a matter of business and numbers, you can create more shooters, more effective, more reliably and more quickly with a red dot or acog or such than you can teaching them irons, and most of them are only doing the job for a portion of the four years anyway, so it makes sense as a business decision. Being truly good with iron sights is bordering on an art, no time for that in this world anymore. I'll never stop learning and practicing myself.

[milotrain]

Wolf walker is right, although I'd change "no time for that in this world anymore" to "no time for that in this world's military anymore". It is absolutely one of the best pursuits a person can have because it teaches us that we don't have to see something clearly to properly execute perfect form.

When you've shot your first perfectly called 10 at 600 yards with irons, and the target comes back up with a 10 right where you knew it would be the whole world looks different.

[NorCalFocus]

Being near sided I have a hard time making targets at distance out without optics.

I may give service rifle a try now.

[russ69]

...I take pride in my abilities to compete against those that are at or near the top shooting match rifles.To me a scoped service rifle is in the match class and as such I welcome the challenge,so long as my eyes hold out.

I have shot practice matches using a scope on a 20 inch rifle and I really didn't see an advantage. I don't think it's going to change the game all that much. I think young High Master class shooters will keep shooting their 16 pound iron sight rifles. Us old guys might like a lighter rifle with a nice clear scope but it's not going to be an advantage. I can see my shots slip out into the 8 ring without a scope, lol.

[highpower790]

I have shot practice matches using a scope on a 20 inch rifle and I really didn't see an advantage. I don't think it's going to change the game all that much. I think young High Master class shooters will keep shooting their 16 pound iron sight rifles. Us old guys might like a lighter rifle with a nice clear scope but it's not going to be an advantage. I can see my shots slip out into the 8 ring without a scope, lol.

Russ when Im not satisfied with my abilities using service rifle irons ,then Ill go to match rifle irons.This is something Ive been thinking about for a couple years.Im close ,might have a deal on a used match upper soon.

[essjay]

I've never competed, but it seems odd to me that you'd put optics in the same class as irons. You'd thibk that they'd have classes for irons and specific types of optics (ie: 1x, 4x), and limit it to "issued" optics. Maybe they're grouping them because they fear that the overall attendance and interest will decrease and wane if they split it up?

[highpower790]

I've never competed, and definitely can put together better groups with an optic, but it seems odd to me that you'd put optics in the same class as irons. You'd thibk that they'd have classes for irons and specific types of optics (ie: 1x, 4x), and limit it to "issued" optics.

As soon as Leopold or Nightforce come out with a scope that AMU uses then it will be issued optics.
A lot of R&D comes from AMU so we will see.

[707electrician]

Being near sided I have a hard time making targets at distance out without optics.

I may give service rifle a try now.

That should help you out. You should be focusing on the front sight with irons anyway