Extreme POI difference with different ammo. Normal?

[Whiterabbit]

Hmm, no I just tighten with a quarter until it's pretty tight.

I also tried shooting with my EOTech that has a QD mount (which I also zeroed using PMC ammo), and that also shot the wolf ammo 6-7 inches to the right and 6 inches up. So I'm pretty convinced that it's not the scope or mount

I have a dumb question, I often misinterpret peoples words.

Are you saying you removed your scope and your EOTech after zeroing with one ammo, put the mounts back on, shot a different ammo, and noticed the POI change?

Or did I misread this?

Scenario 2 is you put the scope on, zeroed with ammo A, shot ammo B and saw the POI shift, then took the scope off put the EOtech on and zeroed to ammo A, shot ammo B and saw the POI change.

Which one of those two is the right one?

[baekacaek]

baekacaek,

I exeprience the same thing when I shoot my AR's and different ammo. My problem is that I can't find a consistant brand that's always available like it use to be.

I too like PMC ammo but not the X-Tac version cuz I believe it's too much for my pocket book so I try to always get Bronze instead. Now a days even Bronze is pricey as well so my shooting secessions are shorter.

Anyway for sure your POI will vary a little to allot depending on the brand.
I have noticed European ammo varies allot when it comes to POI on paper.

Mail Clerk

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I got my PMC xtac from this site:http://www.bulkammo.com/rifle/bulk-5.56x45-ammo

With shipping and handling fee, it came out to be 38c/round, which is only about 2c/round more expensive than the bronze one, which isn't TOO bad.

Wolf gold I got it for about 34c/round. But I'm not too happy with the group sizes; I get at least 0.5MOA better accuracy with the PMC x-tac, so I might just bite the extra cost and consistently use the xtac

[baekacaek]

I have a dumb question, I often misinterpret peoples words.

Are you saying you removed your scope and your EOTech after zeroing with one ammo, put the mounts back on, shot a different ammo, and noticed the POI change?

Or did I misread this?

Scenario 2 is you put the scope on, zeroed with ammo A, shot ammo B and saw the POI shift, then took the scope off put the EOtech on and zeroed to ammo A, shot ammo B and saw the POI change.

Which one of those two is the right one?

Np! I didn't really clarify that part so let me explain.

I often swap between my scope and eotech frequently. I make sure to mount it on the same rail slot every time in case using different slots may lead to different POI/POA.

Using PMC ammo, ive swapped my optics around about 3 times back and forth. In all those times, after zeroing in, my POI never shifted both for my scope and my eotech. So I took this as an OK to swap optics without worrying about losing zero.

Yesterday, I tried out Wolf ammo for the first time. I had eotech on my rifle from my last trip, so I put on my scope to do some precision shooting. My POI was off by 7MOA and 6MOA to right and up respectively. I shot few more rounds to make sure and sure enough, the ammo was consistently grouping around the first POI. I swapped to my eotech, and same thing, was off my the same amount in the same direction.

Sorry for the long post, but to summarize, I'm aware that it COULD be that my optics lost their zero after remounting. But because I've been doing this before without a problem, and that both my optics had their POI shifted in the same amount and direction, I am led to believe that it's most likely the new ammo, hence this thread, because I thought 7MOA was a bit extreme. For my next trip, I plan to take both ammo and compare them without touching the optic, to eliminate other factors. I will post my findings here in case anyone is interested

[Whiterabbit]

Thank you for clarifying. Unfortunately, I'm not confident the greater calguns community will agree that switching optics is a benign change, despite your empirical experience. I'm not surprised you held this information back, I would have too.

Ultimately, from my chair, personally, I do not conclude that a 9MOA shift in POI with a change in ammo is extreme. I did say this before in so many words. I will accept your experience that POI does not change. Even if you have a 3MOA gun and your POI is shifting 3MOA and you aren't seeing that due to the noise (and as you say, the good ammo shoots .5 moa better), 9 MOA POI shift is still statistically significant.

I'm not sure the rest of calguns will accept that though.

Bottom line, my personal opinion is to stick with what you like, zero in on it and move on. Frankly, your cost increase between cheap and what you like is 5%, or 2 cents per round. That is nothing. May as well only shoot "the good stuff". I suspect more of us find that "the good stuff" is a buck a shot or more, a much larger increase compared to the "plinking" stuff.

And also honestly, if the super cheap stuff shoots a half inch bigger than your favorite stuff, I wouldn't worry about that either. a half inch is not the difference between a hit and a miss for 99% of the shooting you will do. Might be worth just enjoying shooting the cheap stuff.

Just some of my last thoughts. Good luck to you.

[FourT6and2]

I've noticed a change in POI with various ammo. Even of the same grain. But 7 MOA is a lot. I mean... at 100 yards, that's bigger than the actual target I usually shoot at. So, I would be confused if that happened to me. But largest shift I've personally experienced was maybe 4 MOA in elevation and maybe 2-3 in windage.

[LeadFarmer74]

Pick an ammo you want to use, to calibrate your stuff, stick with that when you are trying to be accurate. Use the other stuff when you don't care.

This. All ammo will have a slightly different POI from each manufacturer and type. I'm surprised no one has said this but you zeroed with a 5.56 round and are shooting a .223. Yes wolf gold is hot like 5.56 but there is a minor difference in cases that could cause the change in POI.

[waveslayer]

this is normal when switching ammo from ammo, especially different bullets that can vary in different shapes etc... plus the velocity swing will cause major POI changes. stick to one ammo then write down your data when you use Ammo "X" then ammo "Z"

Also if you are removing your scope and EO Tech then you need to torque your mounts to the same poundage every time you replace them, in other words remount your optics. I mark my EO Techs with a white line to ensure they return to my correct torque, if I have bolts I use my Torque wrench every time. I remove my glass a lot on my precision rifles, no issues with a return to zero when I use my torque wrench.