BCG and Ammo Questions

[Flat Broke]

This is going to be long, but I like to give everyone as clear a picture as possible when I ask for help or insight. My brother and I took our ARs out to Burro yesterday for a little range time. He runs a Stag 16" carbine gassed deal, and I have a CMMG 16" Midlength. We use an assortment of Pmags and C products magazines. The first time we had the riffles out to break them in, it was a quick shot of CLP into the BCG, and an uneventful day with no FTEs or FTFs. We went through a couple hundred rounds of Prvi Partizan 62gr FMJ and were both pretty happy with our rifles. Yesterday started off much the same, but we were running new ammo from Ammo to Go, this time the Centurion .223 Military contract stuff found here

[Josh3239]

How you described it, it definetly sounds like the ammo is the problem. Also, you should run the bolt wet. It may not have fixed the problems you experienced but it can only make the rifle run better. One last thing, I wouldn't hit the forward assist. If there is a malfunction and you hit the FA all your doing is making the malfunction worse, your better off just ejecting the round and inspecting the cartridge later.

[scubamark13]

Sounds like the ammo to me. Call the supplier and see if anyone else is having the same problem.

Good luck,

[Flat Broke]

Thanks for the replies. My brother called the supplier and they haven't had any other complaints. I did a brief search on the web and didn't find anything bad right off the bat. Ammo To Go said they'd get back to my brother tomorrow to work something out. I'd be happy just to ship back what we have left over in exchange for credit based on cost/rd to be applied to some Prvi or something.

Josh,
I get what you're saying about the FA. And as far from battery as the bolt was, I shouldn't have thought that a quick tap on the FA would have been helpful.

If anyone else can come up with anything else to look at, please don't hesitate to post up. I guess next time I'll we'll run em a little wetter just in case.

Chris

[1BigPea]

I shoot that exact ammo quite often and don't have problems with it. It sounds like ammo problem for your bro for sure though. That's definitely not the way it supposed to happen.

As for the FTE with your rifle, you might want to take a look at the extractor and make sure there's no odd wear marks on the lip of the extractor itself. Also you might want to think about an extractor upgrade like the BCM Extractor Spring Upgrade Kit. Its super easy to install and gives you great tension on the extractor to help extract when you have a dirty chamber.

Clean your rifle after shooting it as well, all that gunk in the chamber and a weak extractor could have something to do with it.

[jb7706]

One last thing, I wouldn't hit the forward assist. If there is a malfunction and you hit the FA all your doing is making the malfunction worse...

Unless it has changed in the last decade since I have been out (it may well have) tapping the forward assist is exactly what you should be doing in a FTF situation. From the Army FM:

SPORTS
The word is a technique for assisting the Soldier in learning the proper procedures for applying immediate action to the M16A1 and M16A2 rifles. THINK First,then:

Slap up on the bottom of the magazine.

Pull the charging handle to the rear.

Observe the chamber for an ejection of the round.

Release the charging handle.

Tap the forward assist.

Squeeze the trigger again.

[Flat Broke]

The fact that I couldn't find anything bad about the ammo puzzled me too. But we did find that one cartridge with no primer/powder in it, so who knows. All the stuff we shot and brass we recovered had primers but we haven't sifted through the rest of the ammo for other primerless cartridges.

If it was a weak extractor, would that be something that would develop after only a few hundred rounds? Total round count for each rifle is probably less than 350(need to count remaining ammo). The gun wasn't dirty, as it gets cleaned after every outing. I'll crack it open later tonight and take a look at the extractor again.

Chris

[Josh3239]

Unless it has changed in the last decade since I have been out (it may well have) tapping the forward assist is exactly what you should be doing in a FTF situation.

He described the FTF as the BCG halfway forward with the bolt lugs just visible. That bad of FTF, I would have removed the round. If the bolt was somewhere between 95-99% closed, then the forward assist would have been more appropriate.

I was at the range Sat. shooting M193 and had 5 FTFs, 5 times I pulled back the charging handle and turned the rifle to the right, let the round fall out, release the charging handle and keep on firing. Granted I don't have a forward assist, it is quite easy to push the bolt forward with your finger. What I am trying to say is that I would prefer to loose 1 round then risk a bad jam.

[1BigPea]

If it was a weak extractor, would that be something that would develop after only a few hundred rounds? Total round count for each rifle is probably less than 350(need to count remaining ammo). The gun wasn't dirty, as it gets cleaned after every outing. I'll crack it open later tonight and take a look at the extractor again.

Chris

2nd time out with my 1st Stag (Brand New) my Buffer Retainer Pin broke, so anything is possible. That is an easy fix and so is the extractor. I would honestly look at the extractor route first. Maybe you dont need the upgraded extractor spring, just new spring or insert. I would try it though, that's definitely a easy start for trouble shooting it and if that doesnt fix it you can rule out extractor issues and move on.

[Enzyme]

The last time I experienced a FTF with a round halfway into the chamber, I found that my gas tube wasn't engaging the carrier key properly resulting in a short stroke.

Your case, however, really sounds like an issue with bad ammo.

[Flat Broke]

And bad ammo it was. But not confirmed by the folks at Ammo to go. The suck deal there is that we were ready and willing to just swap out for something other than what we had. After mulitple phone calls, and "we'll get back to you tomorrow" routines (subsequently being well into the post-Obama ammo rush) their answer was finally, we'll swap you. Unfortunately, by that time, there really wasn't much left except for more of the same ammo.

They then handed my brother off to the distributor for Centurion. Unlike Ammo to go, the distributor called back ASAP, verified they had a copule bad pallets or soemthing to that effect and promptly offered to replace each returned round with new ammo. Hopefully the replacement stuff will be here by next weekend, and we'll take it back out to Burro and see what happens.

I went back through my BCG and everything is fine, so unless we have problems next weekend, I'll attribute this one to bunk ammo.

Chris