Winchester Model 1886 is a lemon....

[Seaweed02]

I just picked up from jail, a brand new in the box Winchester Model 1886. Although I had functioned the action in the store when I started the paperwork, and it functioned fine those few times, today I found some problems. I got it home and loaded in a couple snap caps that I had bought while it was in jail. The action didn't want to close all the way. So I took the snap caps out and put them back in a couple times until one of them chambered. But then when I operated the lever to eject it, it stayed in the chamber even though the action opened. I used a cleaning rod to get it out, and I had to do that a couple of times. Well I normally don't like to chamber live rounds in my garage, but this is a brand new rifle and I just had to know. So I chambered live rounds thinking that the snap caps were not the proper specs, and I had the exact same problem with the live rounds. Any ideas?

I bought this rifle off of Armslist from a dealer in the state of PA.

[Masterdebater]

The rounds wont fully chamber? Check the chamber/barrel for any obstructions or irregularities first. off

[sealocan]

I'm not very familiar with that model but I would definitely clean as best you could the bore, chamber and barrel.

I've also read that some of those lever actions really need to have their lever cranked fast and hard to work.
gently slowly cranking of the lever is not how they were designed to work.

but again I'm not familiar with that model and of course always be safety conscious.

[smle-man]

What are the live rounds that you are attempting to chamber? If the bullet is seated out far and the rifle has a short throat they will be difficult to chamber. If you aren't already, try some Remington factory rounds made for the Trapdoor with the 400 or so grain jacketed bullet. That's about as standard a 45-70 as is made.

[357magnum]

Years ago I had this same problem with a MARLIN 1894 .357 MAG LEVER GUN.
Bought it new, and it would chamber a .38 special no problem, try loading a .357 magnum round and the lever would not close the bolt all the way.
Found out the chamber was not reamed deep enough to accept the .357 round.
Sent it back to Marlin and they replaced it with a new rifle, no problems after that.

[Seaweed02]

The live rounds

The live rounds are from a company called "Ultramax". Just regular 405 grain lead RNFP bullets. They will chamber sometimes, but not always, same with the snap caps. Sometimes but not always. Sometimes they eject and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they get extracted from the chamber, but instead of ejecting all the way out of the action they simply drop down and I have to take them out by hand. It's weird though, because I even got it to do it with out the snap caps or live rounds. I spent a few minutes functioning the action empty and got it to not want to close up.

[Seaweed02]

Sometimes empty

Years ago I had this same problem with a MARLIN 1894 .357 MAG LEVER GUN.
Bought it new, and it would chamber a .38 special no problem, try loading a .357 magnum round and the lever would not close the bolt all the way.
Found out the chamber was not reamed deep enough to accept the .357 round.
Sent it back to Marlin and they replaced it with a new rifle, no problems after that.

But sometimes this one will not want to close all the way even with an empty chamber. Not as often as when it has a snap cap or a live round, but still happens.

[Seaweed02]

Might be fixed.

I went back out to the garage and checked the chamber, and the extractor, and couldn't see anything wrong anywhere. So I turned on the TV to a college football game and started functioning the lever over and over. After a while I put the snap caps back in, and although I did still get a few failures to feed and eject, it didn't happen as often. So I kept at it while I watched the game until it got a lot better. Then I loaded six live rounds and they all functioned OK. So I think the tolerances where just really tight on the action. It may just loosen up even more after it gets shot a few times. I'll wait until my son comes over to visit and then see if he wants to go test it out.

One thing I did notice though, that someone else might need to know. When ever it did malfunction with a snap cap or live round in it, and I couldn't move the lever all the way to the closed position, I noticed something strange. Right after I would unload the snap cap or live round, that is when it would malfunction with nothing in the chamber. It would seem like the locking bars would just get stuck. But it would only happen empty, right after it had happened loaded. In case someone else ever has this problem.

[smle-man]

I went back out to the garage and checked the chamber, and the extractor, and couldn't see anything wrong anywhere. So I turned on the TV to a college football game and started functioning the lever over and over. After a while I put the snap caps back in, and although I did still get a few failures to feed and eject, it didn't happen as often. So I kept at it while I watched the game until it got a lot better. Then I loaded six live rounds and they all functioned OK. So I think the tolerances where just really tight on the action. It may just loosen up even more after it gets shot a few times. I'll wait until my son comes over to visit and then see if he wants to go test it out.

One thing I did notice though, that someone else might need to know. When ever it did malfunction with a snap cap or live round in it, and I couldn't move the lever all the way to the closed position, I noticed something strange. Right after I would unload the snap cap or live round, that is when it would malfunction with nothing in the chamber. It would seem like the locking bars would just get stuck. But it would only happen empty, right after it had happened loaded. In case someone else ever has this problem.

I wager that the manufacturer will fix whatever is wrong with it and maybe even pay the postage.

[kendog4570]

I went back out to the garage and checked the chamber, and the extractor, and couldn't see anything wrong anywhere. So I turned on the TV to a college football game and started functioning the lever over and over. After a while I put the snap caps back in, and although I did still get a few failures to feed and eject, it didn't happen as often. So I kept at it while I watched the game until it got a lot better. Then I loaded six live rounds and they all functioned OK. So I think the tolerances where just really tight on the action. It may just loosen up even more after it gets shot a few times. I'll wait until my son comes over to visit and then see if he wants to go test it out.

One thing I did notice though, that someone else might need to know. When ever it did malfunction with a snap cap or live round in it, and I couldn't move the lever all the way to the closed position, I noticed something strange. Right after I would unload the snap cap or live round, that is when it would malfunction with nothing in the chamber. It would seem like the locking bars would just get stuck. But it would only happen empty, right after it had happened loaded. In case someone else ever has this problem.

I thought we went over this....

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=14949610&postcount=16

Sounds like your jams are from short stroking or babying the lever.

Work the lever positively in full strokes, shoot the crap out of it, and then see if it doesn't "fix" itself.

[joemoia]

Hopefully continuing to work the action will solve your problem and the rifle will function properly like the replacement I received. My view of Miruko's QC/QA has changed based on my and your experiences with new rifles out of the box.

[pipelinepaul]

What is the caliber? Is it a Jap Winchester or American? Check the extractor and see if it is bent down or jammed as this can cause chambering problems. Is the round being pushed up by the bolt into the chamber then hard to close in the last 1/16th of an inch? It could be a head space problem. Winchester and remington have different thickness of heads and sometimes this is a problem. Let me know, Paul.

[Wrangler John]

My Browning M-71 carbine made by Miroku (same basic action as the 1886) had to be sent in for new locking bars and timing. After that it worked flawlessly. Both my 1886's worked out of the box with no problems. Some just need work polishing as you noted. I only shoot handloads so factory ammo doesn't play a part. No matter what, the 1886 is so much the American rifle it's worth a little effort.

[Seaweed02]

It's fine now.

I already mentioned that it got a lot easier to function while watching college football in my garage on Saturday. Well I did the same thing yesterday here in my living room while watching Pro Football on Sunday. And it is just fine now. Very smooth and consistent now.

Yes Kendog4570, you were right. We did go over that already. But the panic that sets in when you bring home a $1250 rifle, and it doesn't work right, makes you forget about all of that. I'm lucky I picked it up on a weekend because had it been on a weekday I probably would have called the customer service number and arranged to send it back when it didn't need any service.

[mjmagee67]

Lever guns are not supposed to be babied they are made to hammer on. I love lever guns and own quite a few of them, if you baby them they will not run, if you cycle them with authority they will win the west! They do get better with time, I have Winchester 94's from 1897 to 1942 and if I don't cycle with authority they will fail to lock up or the spent case will get hung up on the extractor/ejector. Even my Marlin 1894 in 38/357 take a little force, but it will run like a Singer if you use some muscle. Rack that lever forward till it hits the stop hard, then slam it back shut. Your gun will just ask for more please.