Which 22-250 for Barnes VOR-TX 50gr ammo?

[Rayman1968]

I'm looking to pick up a .22-250 for coyote hunting. The areas I hunt are in the Condor Range, so I have to use lead-free ammo. I don't hand-load, so I'm stuck using 'off the rack' ammo. It seems the only readily available lead-free .22-250 ammo is the Barnes VOR-TX in 50gr.

So with that in mind, any suggestions for a sub $1000 gun for that ammo? Would like to keep it under 8 lbs. Not looking to modify. Was looking at the Tikka T3 (1-14" twist), and the Savage 11 FCNS (1-12" twist).

Not sure how important a 12" vs 14" twist rate is for the 50gr round. Would one perform better over the other, or is it a crap shoot?

Any advice?

Thanks.

[toby]

Take your pick they are both good rifles don't worry about twist rate if your just poking Varmints or even Deer.

[Wrangler John]

I have been developing loads and varmint hunting with Barnes bullets for the past seven years for use in the same lead free zone. In the .22-250 Remington, both the factory case and Ackley Improved version, a 1:14" twist has been found very marginal or unacceptable with the TSX and especially the TTSX and Varmint Grenade bullets. These bullets are longer for weight and require a faster twist. All my .224" rifles in .223 Remington and .22-250 Remington use 1:10" or 1:9" or 1:8" twists, with 1:9" being the lion's share. All shoot under .5" for 10 shots at 100 yards.

The 1:12" twist is minimum for the 50 grain TSX. 1:12" Twist will not stabilize Barnes 55 or 62 Grain TTSX or Varmint Grenade. Barnes recommends 1:9 for the two heavy TTSX and 1:10" for the Varmint Grenade.

My recommendation for a rifle is the Savage Model 12 VLP DBM (SKU 18468) a Stainless Steel Detachable Box Magazine fed rifle with the AccuTrigger and laminated stock. This SKU comes with a 1:9" twist barrel which will handle all the lead free bullets suitable for varmint hunting (or medium game for that matter). It lists for $1113. It comes with a 26" barrel and weighs 10 lbs, a serious varmint rifle but may be too much for a walking around rifle.

NOTE: This rifle is also available as SKU 18469 with a 1:12" twist - not suitable for the lead free offerings.

I advise against handicapping yourself with a twist too slow for these bullets. At some point you may decide on handloading your own ammunition, where the faster twist will be the factor for success. The Savage also offers the ability to order custom barrels from Pac-Nor, Northland Shooters Supply, Savage Shooter Supply, Shilen and others that can be installed by any gunsmith for a reasonable cost.

You can also call Savage Customer Service and ask about having the Custom Shop swap the barrel on your Model 11/111 FCNS with one of the 1:9" twist barrels of the same contour and length, even stainless steel, as a special order.

Good luck on your quest.

[MongooseV8]

Take your pick they are both good rifles don't worry about twist rate if your just poking Varmints or even Deer.

This is bad advice. Twist rate is particularly import in this application. The 22-250 needs a faster twist than most offer in general. Add lead free bullets and you are in for a lot of money spent and frustration.

Wrangler John nailed it. Get something in 1:9 at a minimum. Side note, all of California will be lead free as soon as next year. Its already law, just hasnt gone into affect yet. So its a good idea to figure this out now and stock up.

[toby]

This is bad advice. Twist rate is particularly import in this application. The 22-250 needs a faster twist than most offer in general. Add lead free bullets and you are in for a lot of money spent and frustration.

Wrangler John nailed it. Get something in 1:9 at a minimum. Side note, all of California will be lead free as soon as next year. Its already law, just hasnt gone into affect yet. So its a good idea to figure this out now and stock up.

Most all 22-250's c0me in standard twist rates they will all shoot copper bullets just fine just as all other calibers will.

[MongooseV8]

Most all 22-250's c0me in standard twist rates they will all shoot copper bullets just fine just as all other calibers will.

Standard 22-250 twist rates are too slow. They work great with 35-55 grain lead varmint bullets. They dont work great with heavier lead bullets. Lead free bullets are much tougher to stabilize. Telling a newer shooter to just get any old twist rate is irresponsible. Especially when Barnes recommends a 1:9 for most of their 0.224" line.

[Fjold]

Most all 22-250's c0me in standard twist rates they will all shoot copper bullets just fine just as all other calibers will.

The standard 12" and 14" twist barrels will not work with the 50 grain Barnes bullets. I've tested this extensively and built my custom 22.250 with a 10" twist barrel because of this.

Wrangler John is absolutely correct and his post outlines the best options.

[Rayman1968]

Thanks to all for the replies and great info.

Looks like this won't be as simple as I had hoped.

[pacrat]

With terms like [rule of thumb, generally, usually, mostly] is that they are not definitive. Generally, usually, and mostly, everybody's thumbs are different sized.

Rifles, like Wimmens, are individuals, and rules don't always apply. My 22-250 is a 1:12 twist and prefers the 62 grain Sierra over all other lighter bullets. Light sporter 24" barrel spits em into 1/2 MOA @ 200 yds for 5 shots. I've not yet tried the 50 gr copper buzzard proof bullets. So I've also got nothing definitive I can attest to regarding them.

Since my 1:12 barrel prefers the 62 Sierra and stabilizes them superbly. There is a good chance it will also stabilize the "long for weight" 50s made of all copper.

It is the lenght of the projectile that is more important for ballistic stabilization than the weight. All copper bullets are longer for the same weight than lead core bullets. So "generally" require a faster twist.

Play the odds and get a quicker twist. "Generally" that works to your advantage.

JM2c

[MongooseV8]

Well you can gamble on that premise or listen to guys that have actually been there and done that.

[chris]

The standard 12" and 14" twist barrels will not work with the 50 grain Barnes bullets. I've tested this extensively and built my custom 22.250 with a 10" twist barrel because of this.

Wrangler John is absolutely correct and his post outlines the best options.

correct. Barnes are no good for 22-250. I have tried with the recommended powder and load and it keyholed every single round.
here is their load data.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/22-250RemingtonWeb.pdf

I bought some Nosler lead free. tried my load I use for my lead rounds and on target every time.

even though their data says it will work with a barrel with 1:14 twist it does not.

I bought my 22-250 way before this lead ammo ban crap came about.

[pacrat]

Well you can gamble on that premise or listen to guys that have actually been there and done that.

If this comment is directed at my reply. Would you mind elaborating on what premise you are speaking of gambling with?

Chris said

I bought my 22-250 way before this lead ammo ban crap came about.

As did I, back in IIRC 1973

[chris]

If this comment is directed at my reply. Would you mind elaborating on what premise you are speaking of gambling with?

Chris said

I bought my 22-250 way before this lead ammo ban crap came about.

As did I, back in IIRC 1973

I bought mine IIRC 98 I think.

[pacrat]

I bought mine IIRC 98 I think.

Took the wife n kids to Woolworths in Lakewood Mall [great lunch counter]. Walked through sporting goods, saw it in rack. Told wife I wanted it. Her reply "So buy it". 1 quick 4473 form and write a check. Out the door I go, just like a free state.

Still got the rifle and the wonderfull wife. Some things never change. Can't say same for Commyfornia.

[Wrangler John]

The idea that a 1:14" or even 1:12" twist will suffice for the new generation of .224" monolithic expanding copper bullets, or the compressed powdered copper core bullets has been proven wrong in practice. It is length of the bullet coupled with weight that determines the twist.

If you visit some of the bullet manufacturers websites, you will see that they are beginning to recommend minimum twist rates for both bullets and their loaded ammunition. This is an admission that the old paradigm for factory standard twist rates are obsolete. Also consider that most manufacturers of AR-15 style rifles are using 1:9" to 1:7" twists to stabilize longer 5.56 NATO ball.

One method of approximating which twist will work best with a given range of bullets is to use a twist calculator. There are two I use:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

Both use the Miller formula, with the Berger calculator allowing the selection of one of their bullets from a list then comparing various twist rates. Of course Berger does not manufacture lead free bullets, but they offer many fine choices for other uses.

When using the calculators I try for a MINIMUM Stability Factor of 1.5, and prefer something approaching 2.0 - producing stability for a wider range of bullets. Remember that as a bullet slows, its B.C. drops, so at the far end of range it may be unstable.

Some say that too much twist can cause bullets to self-destruct in flight. I have not experienced this problem with any of the modern cup and core bullets, but it can occur from too much velocity in lightly constructed varmint bullets even in 1:12" twist. Lead cores become plastic when subject to too much heat from powder combustion and barrel friction, they actually soften and burst at the rifling engraving. Monolithic expanding copper bullets and compressed powdered copper core jacketed bullets are immune from this problem.

Here is a group fired from a 1:9" twist Pac-Nor polygonal rifled barrel. The bullet is a 40 grain Nosler BT Lead Free bullet packaged as "Best in 12" or faster twist bbls." Group is 10 shots at 100 yards. This load accompanied me on many sage rat hunts.



Now let's take a look at a specific bullet: The 62 grain 6mm .243 Dia. Barnes Varmint Grenade. This bullet is long: 0.972". Because of the Condor Zone lead ban I wanted to try using my Sako L-461 Benchrest 6mm PPC rifle with this bullet, the only lead free available at the time. Unfortunately it has a 1:14" twist. The bullets didn't hit the target at 100 yards, and the one that accidentally did was fully sideways. So I availed myself of the JBM twist calculator and discovered that at 3,100 fps the Stability Factor was 0.594 - completely unstable. So, being cautious I ordered a Shilen 1:10" twist barrel in 6mm PPC for my Savage custom rifle. The Stability Factor was 1.165, marginally stable, but then benchrest shooters say a bullet just barely stable is best (?). The Shilen worked better, but groups never approached 1 MOA. This caused me to select a different case with the same shape but more capacity, the .243 WSSM and a radical twist 1:8" that the JBM calculator showed a Stability Factor of 1.820 at the same velocity - way into the stable range. Of course the velocity would increase to 3,500+ fps. Here is a sight-in target with two scope corrections dialed in:



Now I was cooking. Latest experiment involved ordering a 6mm PPC Brux barrel in 1:8" twist for the Varmint Grenade and the Nosler 58 grain .243" BT lead Free bullet. It's going on 7 months since the order, so any day now we shall see how a 1:8" twist works with this little cartridge. With twists as with race cars, faster is better, maybe it's time to let the manufacturers know times have changed.