UPDATED - How much does follow-through and recoil mgmt matter?

[blockfort]

I had another disappointing day testing my Savage 10 308 at the range. The four-shot groups were 2-3" at 100y when they should be making single ragged holes.

• Savage 10, 26" heavy fluted barrel.
• Vortex 6-24 scope.
• My own custom chassis (there's a possibility this is the culprit)
• Precision hand-loaded 155gr SMK in lapua brass, H4895 powder.
• Handguard rested on a plastic (crappy) shooting rest, butt was on sand bag.

If I held the gun very lightly, so as to minimize disturbing it as I break the shot, would I get poor accuracy? Is the bullet already long gone before the gun has a chance to move?

I pulled the stock in to my shoulder with a medium grip, laid my head on the chin rest without pushing down, and broke the shots dead on target. But of course as soon as the shots broke, I would lose my sight picture, and often the rifle would jump a bit or recoil off the shooting rest. If it's moving enough to do that, then is there enough movement after the break to throw shots 3" at 100y?

Help.

UPDATE:

I bought a Browning A-Bolt Target, 308, 28" 1:10 heavy barrel and took it to the range for the first time today. I used the same scope, ammo, and technique as I did for the Savage that was giving me problems.

I tested 8 loads at 100y. The worst four shot group was 1.5". If I took out the worst shot from each group, I had five groups at or below 0.5"

I'm going to be load testing some more, but I think it's safe to say that the problem was with the other rifle, not my shooting technique (though I admit that it can still use improvement). What precisely was the problem with the gun? I don't know.

Anyway, hurah, here's a good group on the new gun:

[ar15barrels]

The gun moves about 1/8" to 1/4" while the bullet is still in the barrel.
That's why position and follow through are important.

[LynnJr]

Next time you go to the range look for someone shooting small groups and have them put 3 shots downrange with your gun and ammo.If the groups shrink way up its probably you.
If the groups shrink up but only 1/2 inch look elsewhere.
Tell us about the clearances on your chassis?
Does the action float?
Is the barrel in a block?

[blockfort]

So if it was my grip, etc OR the movement of the barrel/action within the chassis, then there will be inaccuracy at the target?

I did some calcs and found that 1" at 100y is 0.01" a the muzzle of a 36" gun. 3" on target is less than a mm of movement at the muzzle.
Those numbers are scary small.

How do I lock the gun down when I test? How can anyone keep the gun from moving when they fire a shot. Doesn't it ALWAYS recoil and move?

[blockfort]

Next time you go to the range look for someone shooting small groups and have them put 3 shots downrange with your gun and ammo.If the groups shrink way up its probably you.
If the groups shrink up but only 1/2 inch look elsewhere.
Tell us about the clearances on your chassis?
Does the action float?
Is the barrel in a block?

I will try to have a good shooter use my setup next time, though could it be the shooting rest?

My barrel is completely free floated, the chassis is a square extrusion with a v groove on top.

[sjb269]

3" at 100 is certainly disappointing. If I read correctly, you HAVE achieved one ragged hole with this set up before? Or are you saying this set up SHOULD deliver one ragged hole.
So many variables. revisit your hand loads and confirm your good there. Recheck torque on the chassis, verify scope is still mounted up solid. I'd say you could have had a bad day, but 3" at 100 is more than a bad day if you typically get one ragged hole.
I always keep a few FGMM in the kit to use as "control" rounds to rule out a loading problem when things go pear shaped at the range. Keep us updated.

[blockfort]

I have gotten some ragged-hole groups, but not in any consistent way.

I'm pretty sure it's not my loading, this test group was the most precise I've ever loaded. And it did worse with factory loads. I don't know what it is. The scope is mounted solid, and the action is bolted to the chassis tight enough that I can not move it if I try.

[E92335i]

Where are you located? Someone might help you out and hit the range.

[ExtremeX]

I have gotten some ragged-hole groups, but not in any consistent way.

I'm pretty sure it's not my loading, this test group was the most precise I've ever loaded. And it did worse with factory loads. I don't know what it is. The scope is mounted solid, and the action is bolted to the chassis tight enough that I can not move it if I try.

Just curious but how did you come to the load you are using now? I understand you took great care in making the ammo, but if you had the same types of “issues” when shooting a ladder it would make it hard to trust it’s not the load itself. That said, 155gr with H4895 is a good combination.

Since you are now in trouble shooting mode I would reinstall the original stock, torque it down correctly, and test again to see if you get an improvement as its seems to be the only questionable part of the rig from what I can see.

Do you have a backup optic? I would swap that out too after testing the stock to verify the scope is mechanically sound. If you don’t, I have a couple spare scopes you can test if you are local to me. Another option is to just drop that scope onto a different rig you might have.

[blockfort]

This was the test session, not a ladder, but an OCW test. I loaded from min to 1gr over max by 0.5 increments. even the over max loads showed no real signs of excessive pressure.

I may try the original wood stock and see if that's a factor.

The optic was brand new. I bought it after having horizontal shift issues at the last test and being told it was probably my old optic. The funny thing was that the first test seemed to be right shifts, and the last test were all to the left.

[blockfort]

I may seriously try a test shooting prone off my elbows with a sling, like I generally do anyway. It feels like with the sling tension and my body weight, I can really capture and hold the rifle so much more firmly than sitting on a bench with a shooting rest.

At the bench, with the fore end of the stock on a shooting rest, it feels like the rifle is so loose, free to move when fired, and it does, it jumps up and back when I fire. When I'm on my elbows with the rifle captured, I feel the recoil as a thud in my shoulder, but everything stays quite still. I think I shot like that, with irons, than on the bench at 24x.

[CK_32]

I'm no where near a pro or expert but it's pretty important, like Randal said above the bullet has some time in the barrel while people flinch or have bad follow through.

It's as important as a solid cheek weld, trigger squeeze, ammo choice and many other main factors. Precision is just that bent precise and consistent. Just focus on the basics and practice. It will all come in due time. I still have trouble getting 5 shot groups under 1 MOA with most of my rifles. I count the flyers because those as much as people hate to admit is part of the group.

1 MOA is harder to do than most give credit for. At least for me anyways but I get there when I do my part.

[blockfort]

Next test will be shooting prone with a sling and then on a bench with the old wood stock. One will eliminate the grip/posture problems of shooting benched, and the other will eliminate the flex in the stock and the action/stock interface.

[blockfort]

Some data and interesting patterns...

This is the horizontal shot placement (in 0.10" increments left of the point of aim).

The first and third strings I shot in order from lowest charge to highest, on the second and fourth, I shot from highest charge down to lowest.

All strings had a 2 minute wait between shots, strings were 10 minutes apart.



As you can see, it's interesting that when I went from low to high, the deviation went up. But when I went from high to low, the deviation stayed relatively constant.

wtf?

[-hanko]

Have you considered...

...an Appleseed weekend.

Wife and I have done a few. I guarantee that no matter how experienced you might or might not be, you'll definitely learn how to shoot better.

Appleseed