How many of you have properly "broken in" your long distance rifles?

[killshot44]

To each his own, but I'd never store my rifles in cases with foam - it retains moisture.

Break in? Not with a lapped Brux, Bartlein, Kreiger or Hart.

[Wrangler John]

Breaking in is Hard to Do!

With apologies to Neil Sedaka.

They say that breaking in is hard to do
Now I know, I know that it's true
Don't say that this is the end
Instead of breaking in I wish that I was just shooting again.

Here's what I used on the last couple of barrels:

http://www.hornady.com/store/One-Shot-First-Firing-5-oz-Aerosol/

I'll use it on the Pac-Nor polygonal barrel arriving later this month. My experience is that no matter the barrel or rifling method, a simple regimen of cleaning a new bore before firing, coating it with a suitable high pressure and temperature lubrication then proceeding with a fire - clean - lube - fire, cycle produces an improvement in grouping after a given quantity of shots. The number of shots will vary for each barrel, but generally occurs around 25 - 40 shots. At the point where groups tighten and stabilize, copper fouling also drops off.

Some say the throat is where the magic is occurring with some polishing of the reamer marks, others poo-poo this claiming the bore is being polished. I don't care what is going on, the effect is noticeable and quantifiable. So I sit and drink hot coffee while going through the process, which takes me off the firing line to run for the restroom, which in turn prevents me from overheating the barrel.

My theory is that the steel is changing at a molecular level due to the process. I mean if we believe claims that various specialized stress relieving techniques are said to change the grain structure of steel http://www.brenzovich.com/cryo.htm or http://www.300below.com/ including ultrasonic and vibratory stress relieving, then maybe a look at what may be happening during the break in process is warranted.

Usually the raw barrel blank has been stress relieved before boring, reaming and rifling, then stress relieved in a vacuum furnace before being lapped, except in the case of cut rifled barrels (said not to have any introduced stresses. Really?). In rotoforged barrels stress relieving is especially important due to the stresses introduced in the forging process. The difference between the stress relieving done at manufacture and that which occurs during break in is that in the vacuum furnace the steel is heated uniformly with the main direction of heat soak from the O.D. to the I.D.. When we break in a barrel, heat is introduced from combustion of the powder charge and friction of the bullet transiting the bore. Add to this the pressure created from propellant gasses, pressure in the form of a curve that is higher in the chamber and rapidly declines toward the muzzle as the bullet moves down the bore, eventually falling to zero as the bullet exits the muzzle. Thus heat and internal pressure expand the steel each time a shot is taken, a completely different environment from the manufacturing process stress relieving. Then we must consider vibration and harmonics introduced to the barrel at the same time heat and pressure are working on the interior. So here we have a process of interior forces all working together to cause structural changes to the steel, along with mechanical surface changes from friction, abrasion and plasma honing and longitudinal thrust. The vast majority of these changes are sub-microscopic and not visible with a bore scope, except for some macro differences at the surface.

It is logical to undertake the first firings in a controlled manner to allow for consistency in results. In other words, allow the steel time to adjust to the new environment of concentrated heat, pressure zones, friction, vibration harmonics and mechanical stresses. While the difference in performance may be negligible in a factory rifle barrel, these changes are still occurring. In the custom aftermarket barrel these changes may be more noticeable, and in the precision rifle fired in a controlled manner, obvious. One major difference may be the ability of the barrel to remain on zero over numerous shots, free from wandering due to heating. So I just take the time and bring a large thermos of coffee. There are a lot of time wasting things that I do that are nowhere as much fun as spending the day at the range.

[Vu 308]

After all the different opinions on this matter the OP is probably like WTF do I do now.

Answer is: Do whatever it is that makes you warm, fuzzy, and confident in the rig.

Some barrels are hummers, some are OK. All depends on what your needs are in the type of shooting you are doing. Most 1/2MOA is just fine. The F-Class and BR guys need .1s to .3s for what they do.

Personally I just want the rifle to perform consistently. A rig that shoots in the .1s only in certain conditions, or if you need to have the ammo just dead nuts is worthless IMO.

Sticking to barrels and smiths that are known performers is also key. NorCal is like 97% Bartlein Barrels, we have a few Rocks, Brux and Kreigers in the mix.

[thegiff]

After all the different opinions on this matter the OP is probably like WTF do I do now.

Answer is: Do whatever it is that makes you warm, fuzzy, and confident in the rig.

Some barrels are hummers, some are OK. All depends on what your needs are in the type of shooting you are doing. Most 1/2MOA is just fine. The F-Class and BR guys need .1s to .3s for what they do.

Personally I just want the rifle to perform consistently. A rig that shoots in the .1s only in certain conditions, or if you need to have the ammo just dead nuts is worthless IMO.

Sticking to barrels and smiths that are known performers is also key. NorCal is like 97% Bartlein Barrels, we have a few Rocks, Brux and Kreigers in the mix.

I second Vu's remarks.

[1859sharps]

I have broken in all my precision rifles. It works for me and I believe it is good juju.

have you ever done any testing to confirm the value of a barrel break in process?

something like taking two as identical as possible rifles. doing your break in process on one, but not the other and setup some objective as possible test firings as possible. see if there really is any value?

So far, the only evidence I have seen is (with respect) "I have lots of experience and I break in barrels" or "so and so champion does it and wins, so there for there must be something to it". That is "superstitious" evidence...And that may not necessarily hold up when tested.

The great problem with this break in theory is...there is no way to prove that had you not broken in the barrel you wouldn't get the results you did. Or having not broken it in, had you done so your results would have been better.

I would hypothesize that we at best we would would that some percentage of barrels did seem to shoot better, but not all. But, it might go the other way around too, it is entirely possible that "we" could find that break in doesn't make the barrels shoot better.

but even if we find that "greater" percentage of barrels did perform better, if the percentage isn't that significant over non broken in barrels, then this theory really comes down to making people "feel" like they did something and relieves worry, but isn't statistically significant to worry about if you aren't already worrying about it.

would be interesting to see some actual experiments that try and provide some objective data as to the value.

[dskit]

Vu breaks in his barrel, I do not. He and I shot virtually identical scores over 8 LR courses of fire at Sac Valley in 2013. (Steel was different story, but "barrel break in process" was not the issue there ).

Using proper cleaning procedures, "breaking in" you barrel will do no harm, and if it helps you sleep at night, great.

I think its a waste of my limited time at the range and limited re-loading components.

[NytWolf]

Whatever the barrel maker recommended. I tried shooting one with no break in, one "correctly" broke in and found zero difference.

^^^ This. If the manufacturer recommends it as part of ownership, you should do it. They know their barrel.

With that said, a barrel with deburred and polished rifling wouldn't need a break-in.

A barrel which has not been deburred and/or polished should go through the break-in, especially if the manufacturer recommends it. If there are burrs in the barrel rifling, a passing bullet may dislodge it but not blown out. If the burr stops on a rifling land, the next bullet may compress or drag along the burr between the barrel land and the bullet.

Zero difference? Yep, I can believe. Maybe the damage, if any, is so minimal that it doesn't affect accuracy. But it certainly eliminates the possibility of damage if there are accuracy concerns down the line.

[CK_32]

98% of the people who "break in" their barrel don't even know what they are looking for. Because someone on the interweb said so they do what ever they "think" he meant and say alright broken in perfectly but don't have a clue what they are actually doing.

Barrel "break in" is shooting 1 then cleaning then 1 then cleaning and so on is simulating hand lapping a barrel. Hand lapping a barrel is a process that polishes the interior of the barrel and eliminates sharp edges or burrs that could cause jacket deformity. This, in fact, is what you are doing when you break-in a new barrel through firing and cleaning.


But most people don't realize 90% of quality match grade barrel makers already hand lap as part of their barrel making process. But again because the interwebs said so guys still do it again with out a clue but talk at the line explaining to people why they should like they invented the process them selves blowing smoke.


So for the guys "breaking in" those barrels, enjoy hand lapping a already hand lapped barrel and take about 30-40 rounds from your barrels life and reloading components.

[NRAhighpowershooter]

Since this hasn't been posted yet...
Gale McMillian wrote this:

http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/break_in.html

[postal]

To each his own, but I'd never store my rifles in cases with foam - it retains moisture.

In my dry climate the case is allowed to dry when the heater is running if there was a humid condition the case was opened.

I also have about a pound of dessicant in the case which is dried out 2 or 3 times per year.

Living in the deserts of socal.... moisture is rarely a problem. However the last match was in the rain, the rifle was wet, and went back into the case... The case has been open to dry out since then.

That rifle and case were stored in a humid area where moisture and mold affected things nearby, but the rifle and case were perfect.

[Vu 308]

Vu breaks in his barrel, I do not. He and I shot virtually identical scores over 8 LR courses of fire at Sac Valley in 2013. (Steel was different story, but "barrel break in process" was not the issue there ).

Using proper cleaning procedures, "breaking in" you barrel will do no harm, and if it helps you sleep at night, great.

I think its a waste of my limited time at the range and limited re-loading components.

The difference between me breaking in a barrel and Skit not is a 1.75liter of Knob Creek!!!

[Vu 308]

have you ever done any testing to confirm the value of a barrel break in process?

something like taking two as identical as possible rifles. doing your break in process on one, but not the other and setup some objective as possible test firings as possible. see if there really is any value?

So far, the only evidence I have seen is (with respect) "I have lots of experience and I break in barrels" or "so and so champion does it and wins, so there for there must be something to it". That is "superstitious" evidence...And that may not necessarily hold up when tested.

The great problem with this break in theory is...there is no way to prove that had you not broken in the barrel you wouldn't get the results you did. Or having not broken it in, had you done so your results would have been better.

I would hypothesize that we at best we would would that some percentage of barrels did seem to shoot better, but not all. But, it might go the other way around too, it is entirely possible that "we" could find that break in doesn't make the barrels shoot better.

but even if we find that "greater" percentage of barrels did perform better, if the percentage isn't that significant over non broken in barrels, then this theory really comes down to making people "feel" like they did something and relieves worry, but isn't statistically significant to worry about if you aren't already worrying about it.

would be interesting to see some actual experiments that try and provide some objective data as to the value.

Sharps,

I have not done something like that, but all my rigs shoot and it works for me.

Most here don't clean, I do. Not a deep clean as most thing, but a simple one.

After a 50 to 100 round match weekend I will run about 6 to 10 wet patches of butches bore shine down the tube and dry patch once patches come out with very lil fouling on it. Dry bore and chamber, put her in the safe.

After a few hundred rounds 300 to 500, I do a deep clean.

Like some don't believe in break in or cleaning, I don't believe in the need to "foul" the barrel before my CBS. I shoot clean cold bores all the time and if I do my job, she impacts just where I want it. That is from 100yards to 600yards.

Skit may not think so, but I'd bet him another 1.75l of Knob Creek my 260 with 1500 rounds down her shoots tighter at distance.

I personally believe its about how the barrel starts off and how it is taken care of. It works for me and my results are down range on paper. That's pretty much what I gauge what is needed and not in this PR game.

[1859sharps]

It works for me and my results are down range on paper. That's pretty much what I gauge what is needed and not in this PR game.

So first, thank you for the reply. and please, please don't take this as argumentative or "trolling" or anything else "negative", I genuinely think about this sometimes and wonder.

Given your responses and others.....

The evidence still falls into anecdotal at best and superstitious at worst, the bottom line still seems to be .... make a choice, live with that choice.

you indicate you won against someone who didn't break in their barrel. but without eliminating the human element how can we for sure say it was the break in process verse just being the better shooter at that point in time?

There is lots of good theories that sound good that would seem to support barrel break in, but no evidence that really supports it. results on paper without some kind of control to give some idea what might have been without a barrel break in process isn't strong enough data to truly recommend the process or even "prove" it in my opinion.

I wish I had the money to do some experiments on this. it would be fun to setup and collect the data.

[LynnJr]

have you ever done any testing to confirm the value of a barrel break in process?

something like taking two as identical as possible rifles. doing your break in process on one, but not the other and setup some objective as possible test firings as possible. see if there really is any value?

So far, the only evidence I have seen is (with respect) "I have lots of experience and I break in barrels" or "so and so champion does it and wins, so there for there must be something to it". That is "superstitious" evidence...And that may not necessarily hold up when tested.

The great problem with this break in theory is...there is no way to prove that had you not broken in the barrel you wouldn't get the results you did. Or having not broken it in, had you done so your results would have been better.

I would hypothesize that we at best we would would that some percentage of barrels did seem to shoot better, but not all. But, it might go the other way around too, it is entirely possible that "we" could find that break in doesn't make the barrels shoot better.

but even if we find that "greater" percentage of barrels did perform better, if the percentage isn't that significant over non broken in barrels, then this theory really comes down to making people "feel" like they did something and relieves worry, but isn't statistically significant to worry about if you aren't already worrying about it.

would be interesting to see some actual experiments that try and provide some objective data as to the value.

1859 Sharps
When you buy a good quality barrel it is hand lapped by the manufacturer for a reason.When you then run a reamer in the barrel 90 degrees opposed to the lap you get marks that are visible with a borescope right in front of the throat.
When you break in your barrel you are fire lapping those marks running perpendicular or counter productive to the manufacturers lap.
99% of the shooters on this website will not see any difference at all.50% or more don't reload.
Of the less than 50% that do reload only a handful take it to its limit.

[Vu 308]

LOL no trolling bud.

I am just busting Skit's balls. Him and I just like to push each other to compete better.

You are absolutely right about what I do and others may do as superstitions. Honestly there are way too many variables out there to test out what is needed and not.

Brands of barrel
Who chambered the barrel
What kind of cleaning equipment used
what method is used
what chemical or chemicals are used

Does it impact different calibers differently.

The list goes on and on.

With any sport and competitor, we all believe the things we do, use, buy, and try give us the edge. As I have posted previously, it is all about having confidence in your rig.

The rifle I shot this year was a freak. On stages where the smallest target was 6" @ 550yards, I'd pull the trigger most of the time because I was confident in the rifle's consistency and performance.

If you were to put a gun to my head and ask what is the most important things to a rifles accuracy when it comes to hardware.

Barrel maker and the smith spinning it on. If those two are off I don't care what break in or no break in you do. It will never perform.

I am a die hard Bartlein guy because I have personally ordered several hundred for our club members and have yet to hear one guy need to send one back due to accuracy issues.

Edited to add: When it comes to accuracy I talk to my fellow F-Class Open and Benchrest guys to see what they do. If I talk to 10 of them and 9 of them do a particular thing with good results, I'll give it a go. When people ask what brand of gear they should buy? Look at who is winning or shooting with good results consistently.