300 AAC black vs. 7.62x39

[6mmintl]

Any 300 AAC black out or 7.62x39 Longer range shooters out there?

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I've been shooting a 7.62x39 AR and Bolt gun for about a year now and have not seen anyone shooting the 300 AAC blackout or 7.62x39 beyond the 25/50yard lines at the local 100 yard ranges.

Im typically out shooting in the silhouette rifle competitions out to 500 meters, sometimes the 300-800 mid range course of fire.

Most of the shooters on the semi auto forum say the 7.62x39 is either a closer in cartridge or the 300 BO is both short and long range due to better bullets and platform yet I don't see any participation in longer range competition?

Properly set up with handloads and sights/optics I think both can be competitive if the shooter wants to try to push the limits of ballistics/Handloading, and personal experience to become a better rifleman.

If anyone wants to try their hand at it Ill be more then happy to help out.

[NapalmCheese]

This has come up a few times.
I'm interested in trying 300 Black (well, whisper) and 338 whisper in a bolt gun at subsonic speeds. Being in the subsonic area some really interesting things happen ballistically, and not having to pass through transonic the bullet remains stable for as long as it's in the air.

The downside is that you'll have to fire it like a mortar to get any real distance out of it given the trajectory of a 200+ grain projectile leaving the muzzle around 1000 fps.

So, pros: extremely high BC, very little wind drift, high constancy, mild recoil
cons: super double rainbow trajectory, has the energy of a smallish handgun (wouldn't want to use it shooting silhouettes), you probably look a little foolish with a 40 MOA scope base at the 300 yard line (I has jokes).

As far as that round goes when supersonic? I don't see a point in it other than it's different but easy to get into with an AR.

[kielbasavw]

Sighting in rifles with a buddy at burro canyon, his 300aac was nailing pumpkins at 150yrds. These were with his own handloads, supersonic I believe.

[bruss01]

I'm going to build a 300 Blackout pistol for HD. Already have an AR in x39 - I've heard some folks complain about reliability but mine runs like a watch. It does get dirty from the Wolf ammo though, so staying on top of cleaning is something to keep in mind.

The great thing about Blackout is that you can shoot subsonic or you can shoot full power, your choice. I wouldn't want to shoot subsonic at long distances because it's basically a pistol round and the hold over is staggering. But at indoor distances, such as for the HD pistol I'm building, it would work fine. I have a lot of .30 carbine SP bullets and I would like to try loading them up to .30 carbine ballistic speed and see how it works. The bullet profile is a little different, but I'm hopefull that any feeding issues can be overcome. A 110 SP projectile at around 1900-2000 fps should be nothing to sneeze at.

[whlgun]

For long range shooting I would choose the 300. I just am not convinced yet that the round is here to stay.

[6mmintl]

Ive been shooting the 7.62x39 in a bolt gun (VZ24 w/Kreiger 1x13" .308 bore) Zeroing at 200 with 135 SMK (29gr. AA2230) shooting out to 500 meters with 155 SMK (29.3 Gr. AA2230) its only 19 minutes total elevation as opposed to a .308 shooting 150-168 SMK at 15/16 elevation. Wind drift is about 3-4 MOA (12 MPH) at 500 meters. I typically hit 37/39 animals and knock down 34/37 using head POA at rams.
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My 7.62x39mm AR (20" Model 1 .310 bore) with 150 hornady .310" SPFB, zeroed at 200 has 22/23 total elevation out to 500 meters due to ballistically challenged .310 SP hunting bullets. Wind drift is about 4-6 MOA (12MPH) at 500 meters. I typically hit 32/34 animals and knock down 27/32 using head POA at rams.


The 1st real challenge is the wind reading ability of the shooter and or spotter without wind flags visible.

The 2nd. challenge is the poor bullet selection in .310-.312" diameters.

Accuracy is excellent in .308 bore bolt gun and close to .3 MOA, AR is closer to 1-1.2 MOA

Bottom line is "Yes" there are better calibers out there to use if you want to win the silhouette game. The 7.62x39 is capable of being competitive in the hands of a competent rifleman, it is an excellent cartridge to learn wind doping with when a rifle is properly set up with sights/optics and handloads and a good spotter.

Now to the 300 AAC BO, ballistically the lighter bullet selection (135/155 SMK)indicates similar ballistics to the 7.62x39 with good bullets (135/155 SMK) in bolt and AR platforms but a shorter barrel (Typ. 16") selection may be a small drawback to higher velocities maybe -5-7%?

The guys over on the semi auto section mentioned someone named Travis who shot/shoots out to 700 yards/meters?, dont know if it is a one time thing or a regular shoot/match with sub calibers. Either way I don't see either caliber being used out at the longer (+200 yards) for target shooting or semi/formal/informal shooting/competition at Sac Valley/Gonzales/Chabot Nor/Cal. Im going to assume there are a lot of owners of AK's, SKS's, AR's that don't reload 7.62x39 due to the low cost of mil-surp ammo, yet going with heavier bullets brings this cartridge alive. The 300AAC BO being a reload only option would make me think these "think out of the box" already shooters would be out trying longer distances.

So where do you guys shoot? Come on out to longer ranges I need your help trying to unseat some of the milsurp guys loitering in the lower classes at Sac Valley

[Gutz]

7.62x39 all the way.

[Coolguy101]

....

[Pryde]

.300 aac is not here to stay.

Most guys just like saying "blackout" because it sounds cool, and it sounds like a tough cartridge.

Unless a major military power adopts it as their main caliber for their firearms (which will never happen), the caliber will die off as there will not be enough firearms produced to continue popularity and interest will wane.

Sort of like the 6.5 and 6.8. The cartridge will live on with certain enthusiasts, but will lose mass appeal.

Blackout will have more lasting power than 6.5 and 6.8 because all you need to shoot it is a 300 barrel, all the rest of the parts are 100% compatible with .223 AR15 parts which will always be around.

To reload your own blackout all you need is a set of dies, a chopsaw and .223 and .308 components.... which will always be affordable and plentiful. (See a pattern here?)

As a military cartridge, its future is doubtful. But it is the most promising hobbyist and reloader cartridge out of all of the other contenders because you don't need to tool up and buy parts for a whole different caliber to shoot it (assuming you already own AR15s).

Your reports of its death are greatly overexaggerated.

[67goat]

.300 aac is not here to stay.

Most guys just like saying "blackout" because it sounds cool, and it sounds like a tough cartridge.

Unless a major military power adopts it as their main caliber for their firearms (which will never happen), the caliber will die off as there will not be enough firearms produced to continue popularity and interest will wane.

Sort of like the 6.5 and 6.8. The cartridge will live on with certain enthusiasts, but will lose mass appeal.

Yes, with no military contract a rifle round has no chance of staying around. I mean, look at the 270 Winchester. That thing never got a military contract and after a brief 90 years of existence it is on its last legs as one of the most popular selling rounds in the US.

As for the cool sounding name theory, I'll have to tell all the 300BLK owners I know that they are saying it wrong (they always leave the OUT out). I've only heard non-owners actually say "blackout".

As for not enough rifles being produced, it is such a niche market that there are only dozens of manufacturers actually make parts, uppers and rifles chambered for it (Wilson, Remington, Colt, etc...). And some are even putting into platforms it was not designed for, an obvious sign of the round's imminent death. I mean, it's not like you can buy a 300BLK rifle from Walmart, or even 300BLK ammo there. I mean, if it had the support of the world's largest retailer, it might stand a chance (oh wait, how did this box of 300BLK Remington ammo get in my Walmart bag?).

<-- That's the sarcasm smilie (just in case you thought it was the Arsenio Hall smilie)

[MongooseV8]

^Lol^

I had a 300BLK barrel on a savage 12 for a while. It was a whole bunch of fun to load and shoot. The farthest I went was 200ish yards. I didn't keep the barrel long enough to really get much distance practice. I can tell you sub moa groups were easy at 100 yards though.

For a steel match, hunting, paper ect I would take the 300 every time because of the cheap components and wide variety of different loads.

[bruss01]

As for the cool sounding name theory, I'll have to tell all the 300BLK owners I know that they are saying it wrong (they always leave the OUT out). I've only heard non-owners actually say "blackout".

I'll put 300 on black, and let it ride... LOL!

[Germz]

Travis Haley's word is unquestionable.

[e-clip]

I remember someone on Youtube hitting targets at 320 yards with his AR 7.62x39 20" barrel.

For me long distance shooting isn't that much of an issue. The terrain on my property is heavily covered with oak and pine trees and there's only two places where I can barely see out to 100 yards...... lucky for me that's where I spotted the most deer!

I initially checked out the 300 Blackout, I like the concept of using standard bolt and mags but plinking with 7.62x39 doesn't break the bank and there's good soft point variety for hunting.

[RobGR]

I remember someone on Youtube hitting targets at 320 yards with his AR 7.62x39 20" barrel.

Or Haley hitting steel at 300 yds? Sorry, did I say 300, I meant 500.



But 300BLK is definitely superior. And definitely more expensive. Only way to do it is reloading unless you're sitting pretty and swimming in cashola. Wish I was in the latter ;-)