Maybe someone on here can see something in my OCW.

[CK_32]

Long story short. I had to hit burro public range. Set up. As soon as the line went hot my target blew over twice. So basically I had to wait 2 hours to have a target to shoot at and had to zero my rifle on a rock at the feet of where my target fell over.



So can any OCW pros see anything here? I feel like there is some consistent POI around 45 - 46. But I always read these wrong.






Left to Right:

Top: 43.8 - 44.2 - 44.6 - 45.0 - 45.4

Bottom: 45.8 - 46.2 - 46.6 - 47.0





175 SMK, WCC bras, Varget 2.800 OAL @ 100 yards.


Rifle: Remington 700 SPS tactical B/C A3 Stock 1:12


No pressure signs seen. Even at 47.0. Have no clue what happened to the 3rd shot on 46.2.

[CK_32]

I posted this on Snipershide and Dan and the guys over there said this couldn't be read because it needs to be closer to the target to be usable. I know that would make it easier. But I don't why it being low would change how they patterned. I'm sure if there was a way to photoshop the impacts north relative to the target someone could get something.


I know the location is shotty but the pattern should show/say something.

[bubbala]

i'm guessing in that much wind getting a tight group would be tough. but they're all low about 6"? and left 2"?
btw sighting in on a rock is not a bad way to go,you can see your misses in the dirt.

[Bastard]

to start; where are you getting your data?
as I just checked the Hodgdon website for that load & it states that you are 2 gr over max. with a 42gr starting.

if memory serves correctly you will have much better luck with a 1:12 using a lighter bullet.
also I do remember hearing somewhere that the 175smk don't like to go fast.


on a side note - I have never had much luck with Varget & as such stick to the classic IMR4064
but then again I am pushing 175 SMKs out of a Savage 1:10

[NorCalFocus]

1. switch to 5 shot groups. If you have one flyer out of a 5 shot group you still have a group.

2. Yeah you're over max http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

3. Get it on paper. All the loads are hitting near the same POI, so adjust the scope on get on target.

4. What are you shooting off of? Bi-Pod, bags, sticks?

5. Get some 168 SMK's the 1:12 twist will handle those much better.

This is good idea of what your test loads should look like.

[postal]

To be brutally honest.... My concern is about your shooting ability. And without another shooter using your rifle for comparison, I would have no idea if it was a charge issue or a shooter issue.

I say that because even at 100yd you're no where near the bull. That you didnt adjust the scope to get on bull makes me question your ability to aim and shoot for groups.

Sorry if that comes out like me sounding like an jerk- it isnt my intention.

I'm lucky- when I have issues with my groups- like this morning.... I have my brother shoot the rifle and between the two of us, we can see what's really going on.

As to your heavy powder charges... did you notice hard bolt lift? Did you look at the primers on each case and notice the primer starting to flatten out on the edge?

This concerns me- that I dont know your experience level to be sure you know what to look for as signs of high pressure.

I shoot a 1/10 twist-
175 smk
44.8g varget (more than most people use- most people are between 43-44)
2.810 COAL

[Bastard]

To be brutally honest.... My concern is about your shooting ability. And without another shooter using your rifle for comparison, I would have no idea if it was a charge issue or a shooter issue.

I was going under the assumption that the OP is atleast capable of shooting MOA groups.

OP have you tried shooting factory match ammo?
it doesn't hurt to start with a couple of boxes of factory (Black Hills is a personal favorite) to see what both you & the rifle are capable of.

Sorry if that comes out like me sounding like an jerk- it isnt my intention.

I on the other hand - have no problem sounding like a jerk

[NiteQwill]

Aren't you a little over max on that load? Just because you don't see pressure signs doesn't mean it's okay. Time to reopen the books.

I say you have to get back to the basics of shooting and then make sure you're equipment is setup properly. Base & ring torque, eye relief, your stock/chassis, everything...

Then pay attention to your load development. Are you using a chronograph?

This was my group on Friday using a 16.5 inch 1 in 10 twist R700. With some nasty 30+ mph winds. I am going to further develop between 41.5 and 42.5 because the groups were almost identical except a 50 and 100 fps difference, respectively.

[Raralith]

How were you shooting your rifle? Bipod? Bags? Front and/or rear? Are you a steady shot? I always try to take the human factor out of the equation so it's all about the gun and handload abilities, e.g., Ledsled or bags front and and bunny ears rear.

As others have pointed out, that's over the recommended load. Where are you getting your load data? What reloading handbook are you using? Are you confident in your powder figures? Lyman 49th's recommends 40.0 min to 45.2 max for your load so you should have started your load development at 40. I do 5x loads at 0.3 increments for 308 Winchester.

[CK_32]

Ok so for the choice of 175 SMK. These are my 1k loads. 175s are better rounds for 1k than 168s out at distance. It can be done but you really need to get them screaming to do anything last 700. For the speed they might not like to be pushed but in order to keep the 175 transonic past 700 yards you need at least 2300 FPS near the muzzle to still have around 900 FPS at 1k.

For the accuracy of my self and my rifle before the addition of the B&C stock I was able to shoot sub MOA (.76 average) with Winchester white box 147gr at 150 yards when I really tried so I'm sure I'm with in spec. Not the best shooter in the world but I believe that's around average.

As for the zero again I was at a public range with things not going in my favor so it was a bit rushed again figured even if the zero is off the pattern will be the exact same aside from relation to target.

As for the grains I'm using pressure signs do mean a lot. This is not a match chamber so by the grains I'm able to achieve I'm 90% sure I have a loose chamber. Match chambers are tighter and better fit allowing more pressure with lower powder throws creating more FPS at lower grain weight. Not all rifles can shoot at 42.3 grains and get 2500 FPS at the muzzle. I'm also using a 20" barrel so if your comparing it to a 22"/24" rifle is a bit different for MV.


As for the max if you reload you should know book max is not case max due to legal reasons and error on the safe side. Reason most shooters rifle and pistol alike usually exceed book max listed for their (hot loads or match loads). Although I don't prefer to shoot 47gr my rifle does not show any signs of danger but I wouldn't exceed that personally although I know some that do.


I'm also shooting off a tab gear rear bag, pack up front, under a B&C A3 stock. To where I'm getting my data is Hogdons site and my hornady book included with my load kit. Which both list varget and 174 SMK at 46.0 max. Again listed max does not mean case max for all rifles. It's stated on the lighter side of error for legal reasons. But I agree if don't feel the need ho shoot much above 46.5gr.


I'm just looking for a reading fellas. Do you see anything or not? I'm pretty sure my shooting skills and rifle are adequate to do OCW. Just my range day did not quite go as planned lol

[postal]

I dont see much in it.

I think you really need to do it again with 5 shot groups. and start at 43.0

[russ69]

You are doing OK. I'd knock down the load a bit because you don't have measured velocity but I believe you when you say it's still a safe load. Your bottom targets all look equivalent given the limited data. Re-run your test using 5 shot groups minimum, I'd even shoot 10 shot groups if I was going to compete with that rifle. You want to look at the group shape and pick the one that's nice and round. Oh, and dial up the scope a few clicks, so you can take the targets home for further study.
It's also time to move out to 300 yards and see what the groups look like.

[Bastard]

I was thinking more along the lines of the 155 gr for a 1 in 12 twist.

as far as pushing the load that fast - I think that you will be surprised with a lesser charge; but it is your gun & your loads.

and as far as pushing it out to 1K+ - if I were working up a load for 1k+ I would be using the Berger VLDs rather than the SMKs in any weight.

oh and as far as OCW - I don't see it.
though I would guess about 44gr
however it would be to difficult to tell unless you re-zero & re-shoot

[Raralith]

A few things than based on the additional data you provided:
- Using a ballistics calculator: 1. 2,300 fps at muzzle using 2. 175 grain bullet with 3. 0.505 BC:
Range Velocity Impact Drop ToF Energy Drift
0 2300 -0.5 0 0 2056 0
50 2217 0.64 0.98 0.07 1910 0
100 2139 0 3.73 0.14 1778 0
150 2062 -2.54 8.39 0.21 1652 0
200 1987 -7.14 15.1 0.28 1534 0
250 1913 -13.95 24.03 0.36 1422 0
300 1842 -23.14 35.33 0.44 1318 0
350 1772 -34.9 49.21 0.52 1220 0
400 1705 -49.43 65.85 0.61 1130 0
450 1639 -66.95 85.49 0.7 1044 0
500 1576 -87.72 108.37 0.79 965 0
550 1515 -111.97 134.74 0.89 892 0
600 1457 -140.01 164.89 0.99 825 0
650 1402 -172.13 199.13 1.1 764 0
700 1349 -208.66 237.77 1.2 707 0
750 1300 -249.94 281.17 1.32 657 0
800 1255 -296.33 329.67 1.44 612 0
850 1212 -348.19 383.65 1.56 571 0
900 1174 -405.92 443.49 1.68 536 0
950 1139 -469.88 509.57 1.81 504 0
1000 1109 -540.46 582.26 1.95 478 0
You've still got plenty of power, and you are shooting paper, not an elk.
- Shooting with a 20" is going to give you roughly 100 fps less than a 24"
- Lyman data, min of 40 grains @ 2459 fps (24" barrel) / 2359 fps (20" barrel)
- Lyman data, max of 45.2 grains @ 2708 fps / 2608 fps
- Hodgen's data, 42 grains @ 2583 fps / 2483 fps
- Hodgen's data, 45 grains @ 2690 fps / 2590 fps
- The Hodgen's and Lyman data line up with max loads almost identical

Bottom line, you do NOT need to use that much powder. This has nothing to do with the maximum data used in reloading books for legal purposes; everyone already understands that if you read the first few pages. What most of us are suggesting you do is to start from the minimum load, and do a better load test to see what your gun and barrel likes. At the very least, do 0.3 increments so you get at least 3 shots in each grain load, and do 5 loads which will give you more data. Once you know what is working, start going for 600 yards and beyond. If you are having problems at that range, develop another load at the higher end that gives you gives you the tightest group. Also, a 20" barrel isn't a *great* choice to shoot 1,000 yards, and I know because I'm shooting a Remington 700 out of a 20" barrel; would have highly recommended the 26" for that. Also, your targets are terrible, get better targets -> http://www.huntingnet.com/targets/ If you don't have access to a color printer, use a highlighter.

[CK_32]

You guys do ralize that's what I'm doing here right? Lol I feel like there is a hitch in communication

Started from 43.8 to 47.0 in .4gr increments trying to find OCW and a optimal load and checked for pressure signs every shot expecting to stop aroun 46gr but ran into no issues?

This was my load testing. I'm not looking to use 47.0 I just went up there to find pressure signs and have a clear window for my nodes expecting to be around 45 gr but to make sure I didn't leave anything out. It's better to pull bullets than not load them and need them. Right?