patches have blue stains from barrel

[kjgun]

Went shooting, but no time to clean so put some Break Free CLP for about a week (after shooting) and came back did a quick wipe and saw some typical black lead stains on patches. Then put some Break Free Foaming solvent on it for about 24 hours (busy again), and then when putting patches through noticed they came out blue and lots of blue liquid in the barrel.

Is that rust? Copper? Usually I see green, but not blue. Or combination of lead mixed with rust?

[micro911]

It sounds like oxidized copper. Copper turns green when comes into contact with Ammonia, also. At any rate, I would clean it thoroughly. Ammonia residue can harm the bore.

And, I would not leave any ammonia product in the bore more than 30 minutes.

[BroncoBob]

Copper salts

[6mmintl]

OMG!, its called copper residue, supposed to be on the patch, not in the bore.

[Spyder]

It's normal, but there are NOT many bore cleaning solvents that are alright to leave in the bore overnight, much less for a week.

CLP won't hurt it, but won't clean it. I use Sweets sometimes, but am slowly switching over to non-ammonia cleaners. Check out Wipe Out. It's pretty fantastic stuff, and is perfectly safe to leave overnight for really dirty stuff.

http://www.amazon.com/WIPE-OUT-5OZ-BORE-CLEANER/dp/B00162NQ0W/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1379343362&sr=8-7&keywords=wipe+out

[kjgun]

What kind of damage for a 24 hour time period?

I figured regular CLP would be fine since it's also a lubricant.

But for CLP foaming I hope it wouldn't harm it in 24 hours since it's purely a solvent as I recall.

Thanks for the information as next time I let something sit overnight that's a solvent, I'll make sure it's non-ammonium.

[postal]

It's normal, but there are NOT many bore cleaning solvents that are alright to leave in the bore overnight, much less for a week.

Why would you say that? A lot of solvents might dry in the bore after that long... which would mean more solvent and more cleaning later.... but why wouldnt it be 'allright'?

[milotrain]

Why would you say that? A lot of solvents might dry in the bore after that long... which would mean more solvent and more cleaning later.... but why wouldnt it be 'allright'?

Most copper solvents are made with ammonia. Ammonia will not dry but react with barrel steel doing not great things to it. This is less so with chrome lined barrels and SS barrels but it's still a concern. SS barrels are not true SS typically and can rust in the wrong circumstances, covered with ammonia is one. Chrome Moly barrels with no lining will have an exceptionally bad time with an ammonia soak. However weather that degrades accuracy to a point that you would notice is uncertain.

[postal]

Seriously? Never heard ammonia was bad on steel.... Seriously... I read a lot... and first I've heard of it. I know shooting 'moly coated bullets' is asking for trouble in moisture/humid/rain environments... but lacking moly.. a plain steel or stainless barrel, or chrome lined has issues with ammonia?

Do you have any references for me to check out? Like I said... I read a lot, and never heard of it being an issue...

And your sig line....

I LOVE SPORKS!!!! I hate people that like to over complicate things... To the point that I invented (**PATENT PENDING**) the "knork'... the knife/fork. A fork on one end, a knife on the other, with a handle in the middle. Figure out how to hold the meat and cut it with the knife at the same time.... yeah.... Perfect gift the people that like to overcomplicate something as simple and necessary as eating.... Of course the 'tactical version' would be titanium....

[anti]

Ammonia is usually hard on yellow metals like copper (which is why it's used in solvents to remove copper fouling), bronze, and brass. I think certain types of steels are susceptible to damage from ammonia.

[milotrain]

Seriously? Never heard ammonia was bad on steel.... Seriously... I read a lot... and first I've heard of it. I know shooting 'moly coated bullets' is asking for trouble in moisture/humid/rain environments... but lacking moly.. a plain steel or stainless barrel, or chrome lined has issues with ammonia?

Do you have any references for me to check out? Like I said... I read a lot, and never heard of it being an issue...

No less than Kreiger says: "Some copper solvents contain a high percentage of ammonia. This makes them a great copper solvent, but if left in the bore too long, can damage/corrode the steel. Do not leave these chemicals in a bore any longer than 10-15 minutes MAXIMUM! DO NOT EVER use straight ammonia to clean a barrel."

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

And your sig line....

I LOVE SPORKS!!!!

Me too. A friend got me a folding titanium one as a joke camping gift but I use it often. I think it was in response to someone wanting some tactical version of something that was perfectly reasonable in it's own right.

[LynnJr]

Postal
Ammonia in a chro-moly barrel will dry the bore and allow it to rust if not oiled.
On stainless barrels this is not a problem.You also can't get ammonia stronger than 28% without as pressure vessel to contain it so nobody is using straight ammonia that I have ever heard of.
The 50bmg shooters use 28% more than most other disciplines in my experience.

[postal]

No less than Kreiger says: "Some copper solvents contain a high percentage of ammonia. This makes them a great copper solvent, but if left in the bore too long, can damage/corrode the steel. Do not leave these chemicals in a bore any longer than 10-15 minutes MAXIMUM! DO NOT EVER use straight ammonia to clean a barrel."

http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_In__Cleaning-c1246-wp2558.htm

Good enough for me.... Krieger knows a lot more about barrels than I do!

[milotrain]

Lynn, I've always heard that the steel in SS used for barrels (usually 416) is not really stainless but rather rust resistant. It would therefore seem to me a good idea to not leave ammonia in a SS barrel. Of course that is a data based assumption not data based on experience.

[LynnJr]

Milotrain
I have used a chamber plug and then completely filled a stainless barrel with 28% ammonia and let it sit a month.I found no ill affects on the bore.
Gunsmith Dave Tooley wrote me saying this wasn't a valid test as the bore would never be exposed to air beings as it was full.
I took the same barrel and mounted it in a vise and poured ammonia over it each day for around 7 weeks.On some days I would do this several times and on others I wouldn't do it at all but it got plenty of ammonia and air.
I could not find any etching or ill affects attributed to the ammonia.
I have stainless steel actions with stainless steel bolts that rust on me all the time.
The original work everyone quotes on this subject is usually from Hatcher but again he was not using stainless barrels he was using chro-moly.
If you machine a piece of chro-moly and don't put any protective coating on it rust will form the same day and California has relativey low humidity.