ammuniiton differences at 100 yards.

[eighteenninetytwo]

Assuming the shooter does their bit and there arent fliers what could a person reaosnably expect to be the difference between El cheapo wolf / brown bear .223 and decent factory match ammunition at 100 yards? Is it inches or is it a matter of a quarter of an inch or so in terms of a grouping size?

[Preston-CLB]

In my experience, I get best results from match-grade factory ammo. My favorite is Federal Gold Medal Match with 69 grain Sierra bullets.

My Savage rifle (22" barrel, 1:9 twist) gets the best results with grain weights of 62 or 69 gr.. 55 gr factory ammo does fine for plinking, though. The groups average about 1.5 MOA at 100 yds.

When I do my part, I can get sub-MOA groups at 100 yards with the Federal ammo. The stuff ain't cheap, though.
-P

[eighteenninetytwo]

that sounds good. what is the difference in group size to same grain cheap ***** ammo? I guess I need someone who has actually compared the two in the same rifle.

[golfish]

Damn good post, sir....

It's been my experience that the larger grain projectiles shoot better then all of the 55 grain crap........in my ARs.

I'm not dissing on the steel case stuff. It has its place like Preston said. In fact he's pretty much right on.

[smoothy8500]

Eh, at 100 yards match ammo in my rifles is 1MOA (1 inch) or sub-MOA. Milspec Ball Ammo can be 2,3, maybe even 4 inch groups....But I don't shoot at 100 yards any more, so I only shoot match ammo.

[FourT6and2]

Depends on the rifle. In my precision bolt action, Hornady ELD-M match ammo shoots 3-shot groups at 100 yards in the teens. 0.10 - 0.18 MOA. And 5-shot groups are at or under 0.25 MOA. I literally have no need to hand load when factory ammo shoots this good. I don't think I could even get it any better to be honest. And this is a tactical gun, not bench rest or F-class.

But it's gonna depend on the rifle, the chamber, the barrel, and luck. Barrel harmonics play a huge role. I lucked out and found factory ammo that gets along with my rifle.

Cheapo ammo groups like 1-2" in the same gun.

The other benefit of quality ammo is consistency. Cheap ammo might shoot differently from round to round, box to box, and lot to lot. If you chrono a bunch, you'll probably have super high ES and SD. Better ammo is more consistent. And consistency = higher precision.

[FNGGlock]

I haven?t used the steel case stuff, but with the cheap brass stuff in 55gr - pMC, Winchester, Federal, etc I typically get 2? or so with the better ARs. More like 3? + with other ARs. Got close to 1? groups a few times.

I think 2-4? 5 shot groups will be more of a realistic expectation with budget 55gr factory ammo.

As mentioned above consistently is the big issue, just too much variance between groups from even the same batch. One group gets close to 1? and the next is way over 2? pr even creeping to 3?.

Better quality 75/77gr BTHP ammo brings the group size down quite a bit and is also more ch more consistent.

[Spyder]

There is definitely a point of diminishing returns. If I'm shooting steel 6" gongs or rocks or whatever, cheapest steel case I can find is my favorite because it's cheaper and fun. If I'm measuring groups or shooting for beer money, I'll use a different setup.

[ar15barrels]

Assuming the shooter does their bit and there arent fliers what could a person reaosnably expect to be the difference between El cheapo wolf / brown bear .223 and decent factory match ammunition at 100 yards? Is it inches or is it a matter of a quarter of an inch or so in terms of a grouping size?

Good match ammo should shoot better than 1/2moa while blaster grade crap will be more like 1.5 to 2.5moa.
Sometimes you get lucky and find a gun that will shoot the crappy ammo to around 1moa but that gun will also usually shoot the match ammo to 1/3moa.

[pennstater]

There is definitely a point of diminishing returns. If I'm shooting steel 6" gongs or rocks or whatever, cheapest steel case I can find is my favorite because it's cheaper and fun. If I'm measuring groups or shooting for beer money, I'll use a different setup.

Now this fine gentleman has this down to a science! Beer money indeed!
You da man!


MLC

[Calif Hunter]

I have only shot the Wolf or Tula steel cased ammo out of my .223 Ranch Rifle. I get about 2 inch groups with it. With Handloads, I get groups of about 1 inch.
from that rifle. I don't shoot the steel cased ammo through my other .223 bolt action rifles.

[hermosabeach]

I purchased a case of Venezuelan Cavim 7.62 x 51

In a rifle that shoots 3/4" MOA, the cavim is 5 MOA ammo.


It's the worst that I have found.



Lucky gunner did a 5.56 ammo test. Wolf bi metal wears a barrel 3 times faster than copper.


As barrels are cheap and easy to swap, I get why if you are buying 5 cases, if you can save $1000 in the cost of ammo, people do it and replace the barrel more offer.

[FNGGlock]

Lucky gunner did a 5.56 ammo test. Wolf bi metal wears a barrel 3 times faster than copper.


As barrels are cheap and easy to swap, I get why if you are buying 5 cases, if you can save $1000 in the cost of ammo, people do it and replace the barrel more offer.

That doesn't seem to be the case anymore, unless you have a stockpile of steel case ammo already. Lately steel case ammo is not that much cheaper than budget brass ammo. Same goes for 7.62x39, which seems more expensive than 223/556 these days.

[alpha_romeo_XV]

For bolt action rifles, I?ve had a CZ527 and Mossberg MVP in 223 caliber to shoot precision range time with, in addition to over a dozen AR15 uppers in 223/5.56. I?ve done a ton of reloading experiments in 223 for those rifles and also shot plenty of factory ammo from cheap steel cased to $ match grade Lake City.

I?ve found an important factor in answering the original queston would be if shooting green tips vs the barrel length and twist rate of your rifle.

Since most cheap ammo is either 55g or 62g and there is plenty of match grade in those as well, I?ve got lots of range data for that bullet weight. I wouldn?t waste good heavier bullets unless shooting >200 yards.
The worst groups i?ve had with an otherwise good barrel were with 62g steel tip bullets e.g. green tip, SS109, M855. In the photo linked the orange dots are 1? and at 100 yds my MVP gave me sub MoA with a good 62g FMJ compared to 3 MoA with the steel tips. So shooting M855 out of 24? 1/9 twist would ding a 4? gong at 100 yds but don?t expect much better. However my cheap 16" 1/9 AR barrel gave better precision with that same ammo.

https://i.imgur.com/MFyCrlc.jpg

[1859sharps]

Assuming the shooter does their bit and there arent fliers what could a person reaosnably expect to be the difference between El cheapo wolf / brown bear .223 and decent factory match ammunition at 100 yards? Is it inches or is it a matter of a quarter of an inch or so in terms of a grouping size?

Since you indicated in your other thread an interest in precision shooting, I would forgo even as a beginner any of the "mil spec"/"mil spec" like ammo. Its roots are in military requirements for a typical infantry trooper, so something like 4 MOA to minute of man.

If you can afford and are interested, you will get your best results even from bulk Hornady 55gr fmj from handloading. You will also get access to a wider variety of bullets such as the 55 Sierra blizking. Things just get better from there.

If you don't handload, buy the best ammo you can.

While most people will have to work their *** off to shoot up to the possible accuracy of their rifle/ammo combo, it is relatively speaking easy and possible to quickly outgrow the bulk fodder that is based on "mil spec"/psudo "mil spec" criteria, price point etc.

As a someone just starting out, you want to go for something that will allow you to be no more than 2 MOA away from the bench at 100 yards, but less than 2 moa at the bench. Then grow your skills from there. You won't be able to do that with the cheap stuff.