Possible upgrades - Savage Axis II precision .223

[high_revs]

looking at possibly upgrading parts for the Axis II precision (.223) and had some questions after researching here a little bit. I have a 5R in .308 also where did a couple of things

- i read here on the remington, it's recommended not to change the bolt handle but rather just change the knob. changing the bolt handle impacts head spacing. is this the same for the Axis II? or same for all bolt action? The knob is a tad smaller. I upgraded the 5R to an oversized bolt knob. I think I sent the bolt to Badger to do the work? (can't confirm since not at home and can't find the email).



thread for comments on just replacing the knob - https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...ight=bolt+lift


- pushing bolt in is stiff. though <100 rds,. I don't recall the 5r being as stiff. some online research show a bolt lift upgrade I can DIY. or is this more still a break-in issue?

https://youtu.be/0tOe9IRDz58

[baih777]

I have the Axis 223 precision.
You can change the bolt handle. At the same time add the bolt lift kit.
I did the $5 trigger job with parts from Axe Hardware.

Savage bolts handles.

https://gladesarmory.com/product-category/savage-arms/

Remington bolt handles are welded on. Savages are held on with a big allen head bolt.

[high_revs]

thanks baih777. i wasn't sure if savage also is affected by bolt handle changes per the other thread on remington. glades armory was one that popped up on top for accessories. and did see an allen is mainly what is holding the parts to the bolt including firing pin. will check the trigger job later since kinda ok for now.

[bigbossman]

Not familiar with this particular rifle, but if the action can be pillar bedded that's where I'd start.

[sigstroker]

If it has a crappy plastic stock, that could be a place to start too. I'm not familiar with the Axis Precision.

[baih777]

If it has a crappy plastic stock, that could be a place to start too. I'm not familiar with the Axis Precision.

Axis precision has a MDT Oryx chassis.

[ShaunBrady]

looking at possibly upgrading parts for the Axis II precision (.223) and had some questions after researching here a little bit. I have a 5R in .308 also where did a couple of things

- i read here on the remington, it's recommended not to change the bolt handle but rather just change the knob. changing the bolt handle impacts head spacing. is this the same for the Axis II? or same for all bolt action? The knob is a tad smaller. I upgraded the 5R to an oversized bolt knob. I think I sent the bolt to Badger to do the work? (can't confirm since not at home and can't find the email).



thread for comments on just replacing the knob - https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...ight=bolt+lift


- pushing bolt in is stiff. though <100 rds,. I don't recall the 5r being as stiff. some online research show a bolt lift upgrade I can DIY. or is this more still a break-in issue?


https://youtu.be/0tOe9IRDz58

That thread discusses replacing the whole bolt affecting headspace, not just the bolt handle. The dimension that matters for headspace is the distance from the back of the lugs to the bolt face. You could cut the bolt off at the ejection port and it would not affect the headspace.

The difference between Savage and Remington bolt handles that Baih777 pointed out means the Savage is a potential DIY and the Remington is not. The extraction cam is on the bolt handle. It bears on the action pretty heavily and many aftermarket bolt handles for the Savage are not made from hard enough material. The blued handle provided in the link is hard enough. Aluminum and 300 series stainless steel are not. It's cheap enough that you won't be able to have somebody thread yours and buy a knob for it at a lower price.

When exactly is the bolt hard to move?

If it's when rotating it upward after firing, the bolt lift kits are intended to help that and a longer bolt handle definitely will. If you lift the bolt on an empty chamber, close it, then open it again, the bolt lift kit will slightly reduce the effort in the already cocked case. Greasing the cocking cam on the bolt and shooting the gun will reduce the cocking effort. The Savage bolts with the cocking indicator that protrudes out the back of the bolt and use the short firing springs already have a lot lower lifting effort than the old guns. After firing, the firing pin is compressed when you lift the bolt, that's not going to go away. Neither will the extraction loads if the gun just fired a round. The firing pin and spring assembly do not rotate but the bolt body does. It's the friction between the internals and bolt body that the lift kits attempt to address. They do not help with compressing the firing spring or extracting cases which are the larger loads.

If it's when pushing the bolt forward, that could be a feeding issue or maybe the bolt is dragging on the magazine. Or maybe lubricate the bolt body until it wears in. You should be able to see rub marks where its dragging after shooting it.

A 223 bolt gun with a 1:7 twist and AICS pattern magazines has the potential for surprising long range performance on the cheap. You'll need to load your own ammo with 75 or 80 grain bullets and probably need to have the barrel throated so they can be loaded to 2.5+". If the barrel has enough twist, the 223 can pick up a lot of performance when you let it out of an AR magazine.

[sigstroker]

That thread discusses replacing the whole bolt affecting headspace, not just the bolt handle. The dimension that matters for headspace is the distance from the back of the lugs to the bolt face. You could cut the bolt off at the ejection port and it would not affect the headspace.

The difference between Savage and Remington bolt handles that Baih777 pointed out means the Savage is a potential DIY and the Remington is not. The extraction cam is on the bolt handle. It bears on the action pretty heavily and many aftermarket bolt handles for the Savage are not made from hard enough material. The blued handle provided in the link is hard enough. Aluminum and 300 series stainless steel are not. It's cheap enough that you won't be able to have somebody thread yours and buy a knob for it at a lower price.

When exactly is the bolt hard to move?

If it's when rotating it upward after firing, the bolt lift kits are intended to help that and a longer bolt handle definitely will. If you lift the bolt on an empty chamber, close it, then open it again, the bolt lift kit will slightly reduce the effort in the already cocked case. Greasing the cocking cam on the bolt and shooting the gun will reduce the cocking effort. The Savage bolts with the cocking indicator that protrudes out the back of the bolt and use the short firing springs already have a lot lower lifting effort than the old guns. After firing, the firing pin is compressed when you lift the bolt, that's not going to go away. Neither will the extraction loads if the gun just fired a round. The firing pin and spring assembly do not rotate but the bolt body does. It's the friction between the internals and bolt body that the lift kits attempt to address. They do not help with compressing the firing spring or extracting cases which are the larger loads.

If it's when pushing the bolt forward, that could be a feeding issue or maybe the bolt is dragging on the magazine. Or maybe lubricate the bolt body until it wears in. You should be able to see rub marks where its dragging after shooting it.

A 223 bolt gun with a 1:7 twist and AICS pattern magazines has the potential for surprising long range performance on the cheap. You'll need to load your own ammo with 75 or 80 grain bullets and probably need to have the barrel throated so they can be loaded to 2.5+". If the barrel has enough twist, the 223 can pick up a lot of performance when you let it out of an AR magazine.

The lift kits usually come with a ball bearing to smooth things out. The actual lift as measured might not be much less, but it will be perceived as less because it will be a more constant effort.

Also, Savage bolts often come with a lot of grease and grit inside. There are web articles and youtubes on how to disassemble and clean out a Savage bolt. Might as well clean it out and install the lift kit at the same time. I don't know if the Axis is similar to the 10/110, but an impact wrench makes the 10/110 bolt much easier to disassemble.

Something OP might consider is rebarreling to 6mm ARC if he wants to go long range. I would imagine the bolt face can be safely opened up to fit. You can pump that cartridge up to 3000 fps in bolt guns and it's a legit 1000+ yard cartridge.

[high_revs]

That thread discusses replacing the whole bolt affecting headspace, not just the bolt handle. The dimension that matters for headspace is the distance from the back of the lugs to the bolt face. You could cut the bolt off at the ejection port and it would not affect the headspace.

The difference between Savage and Remington bolt handles that Baih777 pointed out means the Savage is a potential DIY and the Remington is not. The extraction cam is on the bolt handle. It bears on the action pretty heavily and many aftermarket bolt handles for the Savage are not made from hard enough material. The blued handle provided in the link is hard enough. Aluminum and 300 series stainless steel are not. It's cheap enough that you won't be able to have somebody thread yours and buy a knob for it at a lower price.

When exactly is the bolt hard to move?

If it's when rotating it upward after firing, the bolt lift kits are intended to help that and a longer bolt handle definitely will. If you lift the bolt on an empty chamber, close it, then open it again, the bolt lift kit will slightly reduce the effort in the already cocked case. Greasing the cocking cam on the bolt and shooting the gun will reduce the cocking effort. The Savage bolts with the cocking indicator that protrudes out the back of the bolt and use the short firing springs already have a lot lower lifting effort than the old guns. After firing, the firing pin is compressed when you lift the bolt, that's not going to go away. Neither will the extraction loads if the gun just fired a round. The firing pin and spring assembly do not rotate but the bolt body does. It's the friction between the internals and bolt body that the lift kits attempt to address. They do not help with compressing the firing spring or extracting cases which are the larger loads.

If it's when pushing the bolt forward, that could be a feeding issue or maybe the bolt is dragging on the magazine. Or maybe lubricate the bolt body until it wears in. You should be able to see rub marks where its dragging after shooting it.

A 223 bolt gun with a 1:7 twist and AICS pattern magazines has the potential for surprising long range performance on the cheap. You'll need to load your own ammo with 75 or 80 grain bullets and probably need to have the barrel throated so they can be loaded to 2.5+". If the barrel has enough twist, the 223 can pick up a lot of performance when you let it out of an AR magazine.

thanks for the clarification on the remy vs. savage bolt vs. bolt handle. didn't realize that and i was dumbfounded but didn't read close enough why a bolt handle impacts headspace. the action is a little stiff when closing and loading the next round but is also stiff but not as stiff pulling up on the bolt and then pulling it back. i'll add more lube right there at the range to see changes.

The lift kits usually come with a ball bearing to smooth things out. The actual lift as measured might not be much less, but it will be perceived as less because it will be a more constant effort.

Also, Savage bolts often come with a lot of grease and grit inside. There are web articles and youtubes on how to disassemble and clean out a Savage bolt. Might as well clean it out and install the lift kit at the same time. I don't know if the Axis is similar to the 10/110, but an impact wrench makes the 10/110 bolt much easier to disassemble.

Something OP might consider is rebarreling to 6mm ARC if he wants to go long range. I would imagine the bolt face can be safely opened up to fit. You can pump that cartridge up to 3000 fps in bolt guns and it's a legit 1000+ yard cartridge.

not quite yet there to rebarrel. still very new but something for me to keep in mind. i do have a 5r in .308 for the 1k plans vs. using my ar10 when i did the sacramento valley clinic a few years ago. (and was the purpose for getting the 5r).

[ShaunBrady]

The lift kits usually come with a ball bearing to smooth things out. The actual lift as measured might not be much less, but it will be perceived as less because it will be a more constant effort.

This is nonesense. Did you get that from YouTube or do you have any actual experience with lift kits? In general, the effect is small compared to a bolt handle and isn't a lot different than honest wear.

There is a kit for the newer firing pin assemblies that comes with a ball thrust bearing. This is a new approach and probably not a great idea. Tiny ball bearings for impact loads generally are not recommended.

The friction between the rotating and non rotating parts of the bolt are small compared to the cocking and extraction efforts. In a properly functioning bolt anyway. If it's not functioning properly, that should probably be fixed before we start improving things with Etsy parts.

Also, Savage bolts often come with a lot of grease and grit inside. There are web articles and youtubes on how to disassemble and clean out a Savage bolt. Might as well clean it out and install the lift kit at the same time. I don't know if the Axis is similar to the 10/110, but an impact wrench makes the 10/110 bolt much easier to disassemble.

Is that something else you got from YouTube or do you have any experience of your own? I've had maybe 2 dozen of them apart and have never seen "a lot of grease and grit inside" anything fresh from Savage. I have seen packed grease, grit, missing pieces, pieces in the wrong order, improper adjustments, and bent firing pins in bolts that have been opened up and improved by their owners.

The 110 series and Axis are very similar. I've had 110s with the old spring assembly and the cocking indicator and one that had a firing pin and spring assembly exactly like an Axis. The 110 with the Axis style assembly had the lightest bolt lift of any factory Savage I've handled. That was a sample of 1 for an entry level consumer grade commodity and I'm not assuming they're all that way.

A core difference between the 110 series and the Axis is the small parts for the older guns were cheap and easy to find from sources that didn't restrict their sales to gunsmiths only. I'm not sure how Savage approaches internal bolt parts, but I wouldn't be suprised if they wanted an unmodified gun back to replace a firing pin the owner bent.

Something OP might consider is rebarreling to 6mm ARC if he wants to go long range. I would imagine the bolt face can be safely opened up to fit. You can pump that cartridge up to 3000 fps in bolt guns and it's a legit 1000+ yard cartridge.

The 1:7 twist and AICS pattern magazine mean his gun already has the potential for 1000 yard shooting at the hobbiest level. It'll take handloads, but that's what we're comparing it to with your 6 ARC example. I did a lot of my early long range practice on a steel IPSC target at 1060 yards using a 24" 223 shooting 77smk from an AR magazine. 50% hits was about par in moderate conditions. It was more difficult than a 26" 6.5CM or 24" 308, but the entertainment value was still there and the lessons were the same. The biggest difference was how bad the conditions could be and still get hits. Under calm conditions, cleaning the target with the 6.5 over and over didn't serve much purpose. Shooting the 223 in gusty winds over 10 mph was mostly frustration.

I have a 26" 1:7 223 I regularly shoot to beyond 1000 yards. Velocity with a 75 ELDm using H4895 at 10 loadings pressure is 3040 fps. It's still 223 economics to shoot. Not 223 blaster ammo costs, but a lot cheaper than a box of 300 Norma or 33XC.

His cheapest path to 6ARC would probably be a cheaper Axis model action and barrel dropped into his chassis. I wouldn't bother with such a small ballistic step though. The current price for an Axis II from GrabaGun is under $400.