Modern 1886's

[LindenBruce]

Hello all,
I have been checking out some Winchester 1886's. Very nice rifles. But the barrels are stamped "Black Powder Only". Is this just in keeping with the rifles lineage? Just curious. I see lots of load data using smokeless powder for reloading. Thanks. B.

[kendog4570]

As far as I know, that designation is on guns chambered for the older BP cartridges like 45-90 and 40-65, etc., to get the best performance out of it with its given chambering and twist rate. Black is supposed to work best. I find it very very hard to believe the Mirokuchetsers are made of lesser grade steel than their 45-70 counterparts.

[LindenBruce]

Yes, the rifles I have been looking at are chambered in .45-90WCF. So I would imagine they can be run with smokeless powder in reduced charges appropriate to the powder used. B.

[The King]

I strongly recommend you acquire a loading manual for older cartridges. I have used Lyman's in the past.
You can have fun with whichever rifle you buy, I like the thought of moderate velocity cast heavy bullets.
But this is not a place for a wild guess. Find a book or someone who has been there before.

[SG29736]

Are these originals or modern made rifles.

[Kerplow]

I strongly recommend you acquire a loading manual for older cartridges. I have used Lyman's in the past.
You can have fun with whichever rifle you buy, I like the thought of moderate velocity cast heavy bullets.
But this is not a place for a wild guess. Find a book or someone who has been there before.

I don’t have it in front of me, but I do believe that 1886 Winchesters share the same load data as Marlin 1895’s, which are higher pressure than black powder/trap door loads.

[LindenBruce]

These are modern made 1886's. But the barrels are still stamped Black Powder Only. Which is throwing me off. B

[LindenBruce]

You're correct Kerplow. The 1886 was built for higher pressure cartridges of the day.

Yes, a loading manual will be had before any reloading. I have been re-loading since I was 15. More than a couple of years. B.

[kendog4570]

They put black only on there so you can get the most out of the 45-90. With smokeless there is little to gain over 45-70.

[crowbar]

[LindenBruce]

Got it thanks guys. Merry Christmas. B.

[1859sharps]

Yes, the rifles I have been looking at are chambered in .45-90WCF. So I would imagine they can be run with smokeless powder in reduced charges appropriate to the powder used. B.

Ok, now your question is making more sense. here is a thread on this very question. The guys at the shilohrifle forum are very knowledgeable on these old cartridges.

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4107

They put black only on there so you can get the most out of the 45-90. With smokeless there is little to gain over 45-70.

As a default answer, I would agree with this. While the forum link I shared does talk about an article by Mike Venturino explaining how to use smokeless in the 45-90, unless you have done your research into what powder, bullet, and performance you are likely to get, and how to safely do it, defaulting to Kendog's answer is not only going to be the safest, but give you the best performance for 45-90. The 45-90 was designed around BP.

Do NOT be afraid to explore black powder loading for your rifle. While there are differences in loading for BP and loading for smokeless you will need to know, it's not rocket science. Clean up is easy, HOT SOAPY water is best for BP clean up of rifle and brass.

some bullet points on loading BP cartridge.

even if the cartridge name implies a specific load of BP, modern brass likely will not hold that much. Modern brass can be thicker, thus hold less. This is not a problem. just something to be aware of

Drop tubes can really help achieve more powder into the cartridge than just pouring it in at the case mouth.

It is all about the lube. Both for performance and cleanup, using a quality bullet lube makes the difference.

You will need 2FF or 1.5F in 45-90. people have safely shot 3f out of it from what I read, but it was not a pleasant experience to the shoulder.

Black powder can like compression, but some substitutes such as Triple 7 do not. Keep that in mind.

You may need magnum primers. experiment. See what works best.

no air gap between powder and bullet.

resources -

Any book by Mike Venturino or Paul Matthews are good places to start. They are not the only experts out there, just two that happen to have taken the time to write down what they have learned.

Bullet lube. Some swear by homemade recipes, but a solid place to start making life easy on your self is good old SPG Lube https://blackpowderspg.com/

The SPG people also have a really good book "BP Cartridge Reloading Primer", if you can find a copy, get it.

Brass of course comes from Starline, There might be other makers of 45-90 brass, but since I don't shoot that cartridge, I am not aware of others.

some good sites to check out.

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/

https://blackpowderspg.com/

https://www.buffaloarms.com/

http://www.bpcr.net/forum/

[lastinline]

Can .45-70 be fired in a .45-90 rifle?

[LindenBruce]

It can, but not advisable due to the excessive lead in with the longer chamber. B.

[Sandspider500]

A modern 1886 in 45-90 is more powerful than 45-70, same bullet, longer case, more powder= higher velocity at the same pressure. If you really wanna go big, get a modern 1886 in 50-110, it can reach 6000+ ft lbs of energy.