Lessons learned

[bigbossman]

This is what I have been preaching forever.
What good is a 6 pound rifle if you can't shoot it enough to like it and get comfortable with it?

I came around to this point of view the hard way - by spending money and fooling around forever with a lightweight "mountain rifle", trying to get it to shoot. I was chasing the velocity rabbit, and was tickled to death (initially) with a "ready to hunt" rifle at just under 6.5 pounds. That turned to frustration pretty quickly as the rifle was only capable of shooting decent 1 shot groups.

The Tikka is just under a pound heavier, and shoots sub MOA all day long. I'm with you - a heavier rifle that shoots well is where it's at.

[Fjold]

“Only accurate rifles are interesting.” - Colonel Townsend Whelen

[spegull03]

You never know, I just bought a Fieldcraft that was hidden on the back of the shelf at a Sportsman's Warehouse.

[LynnJr]

I came around to this point of view the hard way - by spending money and fooling around forever with a lightweight "mountain rifle", trying to get it to shoot. I was chasing the velocity rabbit, and was tickled to death (initially) with a "ready to hunt" rifle at just under 6.5 pounds. That turned to frustration pretty quickly as the rifle was only capable of shooting decent 1 shot groups.

The Tikka is just under a pound heavier, and shoots sub MOA all day long. I'm with you - a heavier rifle that shoots well is where it's at.

I forgot to mention velocity earlier. When your after extremely lightweight rifles the easiest way to get there is to shorten up the barrel.
Short barrels hurt velocity and they also increase muzzle flash. Normally we never hear about muzzle flash but on a hunting rifle where dawn and dusk are usually the best times a huge muzzleflash obscures your vision.

[splithoof]

[sigstroker]

Disagree. My buddy had an AR-15 with an auto-sear in it, was plenty interesting. Might have been accurate too for all we knew.

[200Apples]

We all know what TW meant, so stop arguing.

What we may be forgetting is that he lived during a time when an accurate rifle was not exactly as common as they are today, and for far less money, even when we adjust for the dollar then to now.

And rifles can be so good today that it inspired Jeff Cooper once say, and I paraphrase, "If that rifle were half as accurate as it is, it would still be twice as accurate as it need be."

[1859sharps]

I think some competitions have greatly distorted people's understanding of what accuracy actually is in the real world. While making small groups on specific locations of a target is impressive in it's own context, and does contribute to general skills, that isn't actually real world accuracy.

Real world accuracy when it comes to hunting or self defence is about keeping shots in a zone. where in the zone the bullet impacts is irrelevant, all that matters is the shot is in that zone. it isn't about group size in the real world, it is about placing shots consistently, on demand, within the relevant zone of your target, and doing it under pressure. This was a lesson taught to me by a been there done that Marine and current large Metro police officer, after I as a young pup scoffed at the 2 to 3 inch MOA of his FAL. He told me to get a 4 x 4 piece of paper and place it over any part of my body... 3 MOA won't win a high power competition, but in the context of what FALs are built for, plenty accurate. It's not the groups size on the square range, it is the ability to place shots into the vital zone of your target constantly, under pressure, away from the bench.

shooting light rifles requires developing skills you may not have today, and it may require rethinking some things you thought you knew. Including what is an accuract rifle. what is acceptable accuracy for the target you are pursuing.

sub 7 pound rifles might not create groups like a 15 pound rifle anchored to a bench, but if they can keep shots in the appropriate sized zone of your intended target, on demand, inconstantly... the rifle is good to go.

[sghart]

I think some competitions have greatly distorted people's understanding of what accuracy actually is in the real world. While making small groups on specific locations of a target is impressive in it's own context, and does contribute to general skills, that isn't actually real world accuracy.

Real world accuracy when it comes to hunting or self defence is about keeping shots in a zone. where in the zone the bullet impacts is irrelevant, all that matters is the shot is in that zone. it isn't about group size in the real world, it is about placing shots consistently, on demand, within the relevant zone of your target, and doing it under pressure. This was a lesson taught to me by a been there done that Marine and current large Metro police officer, after I as a young pup scoffed at the 2 to 3 inch MOA of his FAL. He told me to get a 4 x 4 piece of paper and place it over any part of my body... 3 MOA won't win a high power competition, but in the context of what FALs are built for, plenty accurate. It's not the groups size on the square range, it is the ability to place shots into the vital zone of your target constantly, under pressure, away from the bench.

shooting light rifles requires developing skills you may not have today, and it may require rethinking some things you thought you knew. Including what is an accuract rifle. what is acceptable accuracy for the target you are pursuing.

sub 7 pound rifles might not create groups like a 15 pound rifle anchored to a bench, but if they can keep shots in the appropriate sized zone of your intended target, on demand, inconstantly... the rifle is good to go.

I am very glad that you went down this road. I could not agree more. Yes, I like to sit back with my Savage model 12 and shoot tiny groups. It is very enjoyable. But I don't discuss my approach to hunting accuracy because it is outside of the normally accepted thinking.

I hunt with my lever guns, lately it has been a 50's era Marlin 336 in 30-30. I did spend time at the bench dialing in a load. It was easy with this rifle. As far as testing for real world hunting this is what I do.

On range days when I take my plinkers I also include this Marlin. We have targets set up at random distances from 15 yards to 150 yards. When it is time to test my deer rifle I pick a target at random, say 75 yards, and then take a carefully aimed shot from a tree limb or something similar to what I would have in the field. I then follow that up with a second shot as fast as I can get on target. This two shot group constitutes my hunting accuracy. It accounts for cold barrel zero and my ability to fire an accurate follow up shot if needed.

Yes, what a rifle can do at 300 yards with slow controlled fire is interesting, but few deer or pig are going to stand there long enough for you to shoot a 10 shot group for score.

This has worked for me for 30 years.


Steve in N CA

[sig2a]

Howa is making a sub 5lb carbon stalker, with carbon fiber stock. Initially mini action, with short and long action coming soon.

https://www.legacysports.com/catalog/howa/carbon-stalker/