Rossi .243 Issue - locked up breach

[CVShooter]

Several months ago, I picked up a used Rossi single shot youth in .243. First shot locked up the breach.

Somehow, I managed to get the barrel opened up again & got off several more shots but I was short on time & never got the thing sighted in.

Took it out a second time just a few weeks ago and the barrel locked up again on the first shot. I had to bring it home and remove the hinge pin to get the spent casing out. Once reassembled, if I put the spent casing back in, I cannot close the breach -- it folds up but won't lock. Unfired casings lock back fine as does an empty chamber.

One gunsmith I took it to thinks it could be a short chamber, causing it the casing to fit fine before firing but then gets embedded into the rifling after firing. Seems plausible. But he couldn't perform the work & didn't know anybody else who might be able to.

Has anybody else seen this kind of issue before? I was under the impression that Rossis are known for having too long a chamber, not too short of one. For a cheap kid's gun, it's hard to stomach having to spend another $150 for a new barrel, a gunsmithing tool or some reloading gear to make custom ammo for it. Any other ideas for solving this issue?

[DueceMcGurk]

CV,
What ammo are you shooting? Pics?

[CVShooter]

Ammo was hornady superformance international 80 gr GMX. The first experience was with Federal 100 grain -- something cheap. Both functioned flawlessly out of a Rossi Wizard on the same day.

Pics? Nothing looks off in the least. Extractor moves as expected. Locks up tight with unfired cartridge. Won't lock at all with an empty case. The two times I've taken it out, the breach will not open after firing -- but only sometimes.

[baih777]

What's your location ?
Should have the headspace checked.

[pacrat]

One gunsmith I took it to thinks it could be a short chamber, causing it the casing to fit fine before firing but then gets embedded into the rifling after firing. Seems plausible. But he couldn't perform the work & didn't know anybody else who might be able to.

Well Sir, that is one gunsmith who I would never again darken the door of. Rather than dazzling you with his brilliance. He is baffling you with his ignorant Bull Pucky.

No Way In Hell is a case extruding past the throat and binding in the rifling. EVER!

I'm guessing that by "locked up" you mean that the action wouldn't hinge open?

Please post pics of the problem cases you extracted. Possibly hot loads that extruded the primer into the FP bushing on the breech face. In which case the cause would be an oversized FP hole in breech. Or a "sticky FP" that failed to retract as designed.

[DueceMcGurk]

CV rather than "getting the wisdom of the masses", you might consider sending it to Randall. If it is a chamber issue (which I doubt), you will need someone with his level of expertise anyway. Sorry your new shooter is having troubles.

[Epaphroditus]

I have a Rossi youth (Trifecta) with 243, 22 and 20 ga. Works perfectly.

Never had a problem.

Sorry to hear your problems.

Best I can offer is keep it well lubed and polish the various action surfaces - sometimes they come a bit rough from the factory.

This reminds me I need to find a 44Mag barrel.

[CVShooter]

Well Sir, that is one gunsmith who I would never again darken the door of. Rather than dazzling you with his brilliance. He is baffling you with his ignorant Bull Pucky.

No Way In Hell is a case extruding past the throat and binding in the rifling. EVER!

I'm guessing that by "locked up" you mean that the action wouldn't hinge open?

Please post pics of the problem cases you extracted. Possibly hot loads that extruded the primer into the FP bushing on the breech face. In which case the cause would be an oversized FP hole in breech. Or a "sticky FP" that failed to retract as designed.

I'm inclined to agree. The fired cartridge gave me the same issue on another rossi .243 that works fine. I even took a bench sander to the case neck to shorten it & see if it would fit a little deeper & lock up. Still nothing.

I looked up some info about the Hornady Superformance line of ammo. Seems that this is some hyper-velocity stuff that they say doesn't affect chamber pressures. But I'm calling BS on that. Something is happening that deforms the cases upon firing. Might be some kind of equivalent to +P in handguns. I'll have to try something that looks to be lower pressure & see how they fare.

[Fjold]

Something that I heard years ago was that Rossi's are a little "soft" and flex at the joint when fired with high pressure cartridges. The barrel and breech face separate slightly when fired and allow the case to stretch. When the joint returns to normal it causes the elongated case to compress and jam in the chamber resulting in very stiff opening and trouble getting fired cases to fit back in the chamber.

[divingin]

243 (well, 6BR, but the same diameter) - Good trick to know:

To figure out how long brass can be for your chamber, get hold of a piece of fired .22 Mag brass and a Hornady/Stony Point OAL length gauge with appropriate brass. Insert the tool with modified case, and put a mark on the tool body such that you know when it's seated.

Insert the rimfire brass mouth first into the modified rifle case. It shouldn't chamber. Remove the rimfire brass, and chuck it in a drill, and turn the rim diameter down until it just does allow the brass to slip fully in. Use the gauge's rod to push the rimfire brass against the end of the chamber, and lock the rod. The base to base (cartridge to base of the RF case) will the length of brass beyond which you'll have problems.

[PoorRichRichard]

[slamfire1]

Something that I heard years ago was that Rossi's are a little "soft" and flex at the joint when fired with high pressure cartridges. The barrel and breech face separate slightly when fired and allow the case to stretch. When the joint returns to normal it causes the elongated case to compress and jam in the chamber resulting in very stiff opening and trouble getting fired cases to fit back in the chamber.

I just looked at a picture of these Rossi top break shotguns/rifles. What a bad design for a high pressure cartridge such as the 243 Winchester.

The load path is from the barrel pin to the breech face, and that distance is long. Even if the steels were properly chosen and tempered, steel stretches a couple of thousandth's per inch, and so, a high pressure cartridge fired in on of those things is going to stretch the action, elastically. You don't want to get into non elastic stretch, that will be bad. This is the same problem Lee Enfield owners have, the bolts and actions stretch in those things.

It is possible a previous owner did permanently stretch the action with a hot load. Unless the action has been checked for headspace, you don't know.

If the action checks OK for headspace, then reload and cut your loads to the level that you don't have a locked up action. Which may be 30-30 level action velocities!

I just cannot image an cheap top break being suitable for 20 ga shotgun shells and 65,000 psia center fired cartridges.

[Flouncer]

Rich, were you the original purchaser/shooter ? Can you visualize yourself in Rossi's shoes ? Gawd knows what was blasted out of the OP's used weapon. So . . . if it is a marginal design, then it may be toasted. If you were Rossi or Braztech, would you really eat this cost ??

Hornady in my experience is pretty conservative in their ammunition and loading data and I doubt the Superformance is an overpressure issue, given that the chamber is within spec.