Rifle's coming, needing a scope recommendation

[Newguy1980]

...and rings/mount too.

Getting a savage 110 tactical - 24" in 308 - since the rebate's happening. It already comes with a 20MOA rail.

I have been referencing trollygag's wiki as well on /r/longrange. So here I am.

So far the scopes are down to...

• SWFA SS 12x scope - $300 (lifetime warranty though backordered)
• PA 4-14x (either the r-grid or the acss-dmr) - Anywhere from $190-240 on ebay blem/openbox (still 3yr warranty)
• Vortex Diamondback 6-24x50 - $300 on bhphotovideo (though backordered)

Previously it was going to be the PA or SWFA, but then the diamondback came back down, and now I'm indecisive once again.

I won't be hunting, but it wouldn't hurt to have it as a backup (this is the acss-dmr). And again I'm still newbie'ing this pretty hard. It might just be helpful for me to start with the PA and use the balance on rings/mount. And upgrade once the scope is the one that's holding me back.

But the lifetime warranty on the SWFA and Vortex DB is just enticing to the "buy once cry once" - and they'll literally replace it at any point. Having good glass from the get-go is great. My main question is...typically the Vortex DB is at a $100 premium to the SWFA...but in this case, they're tied ($$$). Which one has the better glass?

And then lastly... with either of those scopes, which rings/mount would you all recommend (along with height)?

[axel4488]

Friend has a Vortex Viper on his Savage in .308 and 22 inch barrel. Perfect combo imo.

[middleofnowhere]

Savage is an American made rifle, why not an American made scope? Leupold has a great warranty and are very competitive to the Chinese made scopes you are considering.

[d.f.anonymous]

Let me ask you this since you are trying to get into long range, and are using this set up exclusively for target/steel.

At what point is glass going to make you hit or miss the target?
Think of it this way, most chromatic aberration is at the edges of the glass. Since most people dial there elevation, this brings the target to the center of the scope.
Further more, there’s some BS about a lot of these companies and “where they get there glass.” I assure you they are all Asian glass of some variety and the levels of multi-coating are how it adds to clarity are probably nothing much to argue about since there’s hardly any significant difference to the average eye.

Pretty much all the brands you listed, you will see the target.

Things you SHOULD consider are features. Particularly in turret travel. The SWFAs have something round about 28 mils of travel in a 30mm tube. That’s better then some 34mm tunes. There’s also aftermarket shims for the SWFA to make a zero stop sort of. The way the vortex tactical erector is enclosed, there’s not way to make a zero stop for it, and the total elevation adjustment is like 19 mils. When you zero you will have about half of that. Plus you 20 moa base, so that’s; 20/3.438= 5.7 mils +9.5 mils total before you bottom out plus whatever’s in the reticle. The swfa has their reticle, the vortex uses a christmas tree reticle, and are great for holds. Etc etc.

If you’re IDing targets or splitting a target at 2 miles away, the. glass quality is a luxury. If you have the best glass in the world, some Schmidt & Bender quality stuff, but you run out of elevation, or dislike the field of view, or use a reticle you can’t use, etc.. then you set your limitation early mechanically...but you can see your target in slightly better detail and all it’s pretty colors. For hunting better glass works in low light, where animals are generally active. Illuminated reticles help offset the black reticle to something that can be seen in shadows and what not.


These are features I’d look at anyways.

[Newguy1980]

axel - viper's a bit higher than these ($)
middle - I knew PA manufacture's in China, didn't realize vortex also was.
d.f.a - this will 99% be used for targets/steel. Never knew anything (still don't) about turret travel. It was interesting to note about ID'ing vs visibility.

I think this is rounding it out a bit for me - realizing that I don't want to outset too much where my skill has yet to be assessed. I don't want to get a Threadripper CPU only to play minesweeper, etc... or a grand piano only to play "mary had a little lamb."

With that in mind, I'm looking for a scope that'll handle 308 recoil on a non muzzle-braked rifle. I'm thinking at barebones, a duplex reticle would suffice. I will have access to 100-500yds with 1000yds if I'm willing to do a longer drive.

I'll definitely (at least for the next 2 years or so) be using off the shelf ammo. No handloads on this end.

So I started it with a should-be-more-capable-than-me rifle, and now I should be looking just for a scope that won't fall apart and gives a good enough view of 500yds to see a 10" target (and then 5"...and then..2.5" haha).

[d.f.anonymous]

For the record, leupold is American assembled. If you look on there website they will tell you which parts are made in America. Almost all scope companies get their glass and often their parts from overseas manufactures. As to where depends on the line of scope per manufacture. Vortex has about 3 places they have their scopes made. Japan, Philippines and for their stupid toy scopes, China. The AMG in the vortex line is assembled in house with most parts made proprietary, but the glass is still picked apart from where everyone else gets their ****.
Swfa...japan.
Nightforce...you guessed it...Japan.
US optics...Japan.
IOR...Europe.
S&B..Europe, the usual schott glass multicoated in house.

[d.f.anonymous]

axel - viper's a bit higher than these ($)
middle - I knew PA manufacture's in China, didn't realize vortex also was.
d.f.a - this will 99% be used for targets/steel. Never knew anything (still don't) about turret travel. It was interesting to note about ID'ing vs visibility.

I think this is rounding it out a bit for me - realizing that I don't want to outset too much where my skill has yet to be assessed. I don't want to get a Threadripper CPU only to play minesweeper, etc... or a grand piano only to play "mary had a little lamb."

With that in mind, I'm looking for a scope that'll handle 308 recoil on a non muzzle-braked rifle. I'm thinking at barebones, a duplex reticle would suffice. I will have access to 100-500yds with 1000yds if I'm willing to do a longer drive.

I'll definitely (at least for the next 2 years or so) be using off the shelf ammo. No handloads on this end.

So I started it with a should-be-more-capable-than-me rifle, and now I should be looking just for a scope that won't fall apart and gives a good enough view of 500yds to see a 10" target (and then 5"...and then..2.5" haha).

[SafetyOptional]

All the scopes mentioned are great. Check out athlon optics as well, great value and often overlooked.

For rings I'd recommend arc if you have the money if not get seekins / vortex.

Personally I prefer tree reticles and zero stop so check those features out.

[kevins750]

With the exception of swfa everything else in your price range is chinese.
I am not going to knock any scope regardless of origins.

That being said.....

Euro optics may still have Nikon's on sale.

Arken
Athlon
Are two companies that have some very good scopes for the price. Some selections have zero stops built in to the scope unlike the swfa. Nothing wrong with swfa though.
Just to add if you can find a used weaver tactical scope they are very nice Japanese scopes. Some of the newer bushnells are very nice also.
About rings, if your on a budget the weaver tactical are very good 4 or 6 hole I believe. Vortex viper rings and swfa rings are used by many also.
I have a set of seekins and vortex pro, they are the same rings just branded different. Xlr rings are decent also for not a lot of money.

I been through this with a couple new shooters at work recently.

[Fjold]

You will get a lot more use from a variable scope especially if you use it as a back up for hunting. The fixed 12X would be the worst choice for this.

[splithoof]

http://opticsthoughts.com/

The above will give some very useful info on very good optics. Take your time to wade through it, as there are some very good comparisons. I've met the author several times, and can attest to his knowledge.

[Boarhuntor]

.

• SWFA SS 12x scope - $300 (lifetime warranty though backordered)
• PA 4-14x (either the r-grid or the acss-dmr) - Anywhere from $190-240 on ebay blem/openbox (still 3yr warranty)
• Vortex Diamondback 6-24x50 - $300 on bhphotovideo (though backordered)

.... just enticing to the "buy once cry once" - ......

Those prices you call "buy once cry once"????
If you were buying Swarovsky, Nightforce, etc. it would be "buy once cry once"
For long-range shooting, those ones you list are el-cheapo compromise, money sawing, very, very basic.... or "buy once cry till get rid off"

[mafbloggerdanny]

if you end up going with either of those 12x or 14x scopes i recommend you ditch that 20 MOA rail and get a 0 MOA rail until you're ready to step up into longer range.

unless you plan to shoot majority at 300y or more, then i guess keep the 20 MOA rail but it's not always fun to have to shoot long distance all the time. And if you do plan to shoot 500y that often, that urges you more toward getting the 24x paired with the 20 moa rail.

[d.f.anonymous]

?? You don’t “need” 20 moa rail for under at least 600 yards. I have a 30 moa on a particular .308. Last shoot at 1500 yards was about 19 mil....
...19 mils..it’s safe to say around 1000 is where some “need” a 20 moa base. I don’t know about this 300 yard malarkey.

[mafbloggerdanny]

?? You don’t “need” 20 moa rail for under at least 600 yards. I have a 30 moa on a particular .308. Last shoot at 1500 yards was about 19 mil....
...19 mils..it’s safe to say around 1000 is where some “need” a 20 moa base. I don’t know about this 300 yard malarkey.

don't know if you read the rest of this thread but (for the same reasons you articulated) I was recommending to OP that he NOT use a 20 MOA base, which he mentioned is coming with the rifle pre-installed. Because he doesn't need a 20 MOA base. Why did I say 300y instead of 1000? That was based off a recommendation from WARNE to use 300y as a sighting-in range with their 20 MOA base. Just an example of one manufacturer's recommendations.

https://warnescopemounts.com/20moa-explained/

A 20MOA base is not always the best base to use, depending on the rifle and its purpose. In some cases, the scope being used when being paired with a flat shooting cartridge, cannot dial the added 20MOA of elevation out to keep the gun zeroed at 100 yards. The rifle must then be zeroed to 200 or 300 yards

I never suggested that OP "need" a 20MOA base for 300y, I was suggesting that 300y would be the MINIMUM optimal range he should be shooting at if he intended to keep the 20 MOA base. Anything less and he should switch to a 0 MOA base was my advice. But I'm no expert at 1500 yards like you so feel free to offer your own advice to OP.