Bolt gun “break-in”

[boattail]

Don't feed the obvious trolls

No brag just fact.

[boattail]

So what you mean is two of them have 5000 rounds COMBINED.
That's around 2500 each.
That's why you are showing a group at around 2900 rounds.
Show us 5 more groups on the same piece of target paper so we know you are not trying to pass off one hand-picked group as "average".

No, I have two barrels with 5000 rounds each. Groups shot at 100 yards. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else here.

If you don't think it's possible to have barrels shoot like mine do you don't get out much.

[ar15barrels]

So that is how it's done.....

There are actually people that do that.
I have seen it at the range.

[ar15barrels]

No, I have two barrels with 5000 rounds each. Groups shot at 100 yards. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else here.

No problem.
Post the groups at 5000 rounds.
I'll believe it when I see them.
Multiples, not a hand picked single group.
6 groups on a single piece pf paper.

[boattail]

No problem.
Post the groups at 5000 rounds.
I'll believe it when I see them.
Multiples, not a hand picked single group.
6 groups on a single piece pf paper.

Don't hold your breath. I don't fill targets with holes like that. I work for a few farmers and do pest control. I get a load developed and then use that load all season. At the end of the season I lay down a single group on paper to see how the barrels have done for the season. If the groups don't hold up I readjust my distance to the lands and get them shooting back where they were. Once that node is found I stop wasting barrel life.

I have two of five bullets that will go small consistent groups. The 40g V-max is one of them. The 24g NTX is my 4100 fps load and the average it will shoot is 3/4" at 100 yards. I also have a slow load of 26g BVG's that will stack ten rounds under a dime all day long. The 39g TNT's are between 1/2" and 3/4" groups. I have developed the 32g Nosler lead free in the shorter barrel and am getting under 1/2" groups from it. I was able to get the Barnes Varmint Grenade to shoot over 4000 fps and keep a 1/2" group last year in load development. I found out those needed a big jump to make them fly otherwise you have to slow them down to 3500 fps to get consistent groups with a short jump.

My 40g V-max load is the very best and most consistent. Too bad I cannot use them in the field anymore with the lead ban upon us. I still have 1500 of them loaded up.

I learned this caliber from Greg Lamb and he helped me get going with it. I fell in love with the caliber quickly and despite some quality control issues at BHW I like their barrels. Too bad Carl stopped selling wildcats as i won't be able to replace these with BHW tubes when they do die.

[ar15barrels]

I learned this caliber from Greg Lamb and he helped me get going with it. I fell in love with the caliber quickly and despite some quality control issues at BHW I like their barrels. Too bad Carl stopped selling wildcats as i won't be able to replace these with BHW tubes when they do die.

I have built a bunch of 20 practical and 20 tactical for high volume varmint guys.

[boattail]

I have built a bunch of 20 practical and 20 tactical for high volume varmint guys.

So you know the caliber.....it's a laser.

[1859sharps]

It can't exist. Every barrel is different, even if cut from adjacent rods of steel on the same boring and rifling machines.

They aren't that different. If they were, why are soooo many people reporting similar results with similar rifle. Buy a Tikia..sound familiar? have so and so assemble your rifle they build tack drivers? heck this idea of every rifle is so amazingly different is another "truth" that needs to be properly tested. I suspect it is overblown to some degree. A truth that has gotten a bit too cozy to myth.

anyway back on topic.... If you are careful, you could get close enough to "identical" that you could develop a statistical trend. hence the need for more than one rifle that are as close to "identical" as humanly/technologically possible with enough units to have a test and control group. Statistical trend is probably the only path to an answer, vs hard, solid cause and affect.

without a control and without a process that can be replicated, there is a lot of faith behind this and not a lot of fact behind the barrel break in.

As for "theory", remember in science, it is all theory or hypothesis. hypothesis is a question or idea waiting to be tested. Theory is something with data behind it. Not just data that supports the original hypothesis, but data that also shows what would happen if you "turned left" vs "right" or why it is only possible from something to work the way it does.

Barrel break in is a hypothesis without complete data. to move to theory, you need carefully controlled data collection, repeatable steps, and data for the path not taken.

I actually want to know, I am damn curious and wish I had the money to test the break in hypothesis. I would be equally happy with whatever answer came out of a proper test.

[divingin]

They aren't that different. If they were, why are soooo many people reporting similar results with similar rifle. Buy a Tikia..sound familiar?

Have you ever had to re-work up loads after a barrel change? Ever have an identical barrel like different bullets, different powders? It happens. I've had a barrel that didn't like *anything* (got returned and replaced.)

I actually want to know, I am damn curious and wish I had the money to test the break in hypothesis. I would be equally happy with whatever answer came out of a proper test.

I'm sure you're not alone. I have heard of a couple of guys who started off along that path, but as far as I know, they gave up before reaching any kind of conclusion.

[RandyD]

the whole break in idea is based on superstitious learning based on an assumed cause and effect. "shot better because I did x"...but how do you know you wouldn't have shot just as good had you not done X?

You should attend the next benchrest match near you and inform all those uninformed shooters to stop breaking in their barrels.

[1859sharps]

Have you ever had to re-work up loads after a barrel change? Ever have an identical barrel like different bullets, different powders? It happens. I've had a barrel that didn't like *anything* (got returned and replaced.)

I comprehend what your saying, but I don't think that level difference is relevant to this discussion or frankly any discussion beyond tuning your hand load to your specific rifle.

if a commercial rifle manufacture's rifles were sooo different that the result you can expect is so unpredictable why would anyone buy that manufacture? same for custom smiths, same for ammunition manufactures.


What your alluding to is recapturing a specific result on paper. But that isn't actually what we need to prove one way or another break in.

When I am saying the differences don't matter, I am talking about taking for example 10 tikka rifles manufactured at the same time, and a case of Federal gold metal match and then shooting each rifle at X distance and seeing very, very close results. not identical, but close. say distance is 100 yards and for all 10 rifles the average group was 1 MOA. that is the level of "identical" we need to test this idea of barrel break in.

we don't need literal clones, that isn't possible. We need carefully built to close to identical as is possible. and in sufficient numbers to account of random dud, and random amazing.

If you had 20 such rifles, you would then take 10, shoot them all the same way, using the same ammo at X distance. record the result.

Then take the other 10, do a specific break in set of steps on each rifle and record the result.

now you are starting to get data that supports a conclusion.

To have data that supports break in you need to just show groups averaging 1 inch in the control vs 1/2 inch in the test group.

by having more than one rifle as close to identical as possible and in a group larger enough to account for outliers, you start generating data that becomes relevant and usable and far more scientific than anything we have now.

[LynnJr]

It's actually not a theory. You look at the marks left by the pilot and shoot the gun. On your second barrel you don't clean the gun.
After xxx rounds you look down both barrels and see which one shows the least amount of circular scratches.

I have shot Hart,Lilja,Kreiger,Bartlein,Shilen,Brux,Broughton and Pac-Nor barrels in 6BR 6 Dasher 300 WSM 300 Ackley and 6mm-06 and the load and the seating depth never changed 0.2 grains in over 50 barrels.
I did have a single barrel that didn't like any bullet at all.

Boattail
Bring your AR15 to a benchrest match where they put 25 rounds on paper in 5 separate groups known as an aggregate and show those guys how it's done. You can use a new barrel not one with 5000 rounds on it.
The Benchrest crowd got tired of listening to all the internet warriors and actually changed the rules just so AR15 shooters could compete.
According to Lou Murdica only one has ever showed up.

[boattail]

Wow, I have been here six years and have posted less than 100 times because I like to read and only contribute my experiences when I feel I can offer up something that I have not read about in other members posts.

I posted in this thread to give my experiences with four barrels that were not officially broken in and how they have held up.

With that information I have been called a troll, a liar, and an internet warrior all because I have barrels with 5000 rounds on them that will still shoot groups as good as they did when they were new.

Wow...just frikken wow.

[LynnJr]

Boattail
Some posters here have a long history of shooting very accurate rifles.
When you post that you have 2 barrels with 5000 rounds on each and your load is over 4000 fps the BS meter gets pegged.
Joel Kendrick claimed he had a competitive barrel with that many rounds down it but at that time he was also promoting the melonite process used by many today.
When you couple the accuracy with the higher than normal velocity then the AR15 platform you will always get doubters.
Good luck with your shooting.

[boattail]

Boattail
Some posters here have a long history of shooting very accurate rifles.
When you post that you have 2 barrels with 5000 rounds on each and your load is over 4000 fps the BS meter gets pegged.
Joel Kendrick claimed he had a competitive barrel with that many rounds down it but at that time he was also promoting the melonite process used by many today.
When you couple the accuracy with the higher than normal velocity then the AR15 platform you will always get doubters.
Good luck with your shooting.

Thank you for the response. I am not into competition and know absolutely nothing about it. What I learned when I got into the 20 practical has been a chore for me...making cases, developing loads, the whole ball of wax. My reloading equipment cost as much as what I paid for my current vehicle I drive.

I'm a high volume squirrel hunter that has gotten lucky to have a couple of good barrels go the distance for me...and they were never broken in per the manufactures recommendations.