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Thinking of getting a 338 Lapua

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  • #61
    ShaunBrady
    Member
    • Oct 2011
    • 413

    Originally posted by ar15barrels
    I setup 1 mil per click so the elevation clicks equate to mils in the quicktarget output.
    I gauge performance of longrange loads by wind drift, not drop.

    8.5moa is not too far behind 8.1moa of windage.
    Thank you for clarifying that. I started there but it's been awhile. I think it's an entry point into a development program or general guideline, not the final arbitrator.

    I moved on to WEZ, but that also over predicts the benefits of many things.

    Another problem is either of those perspectives inevitably lead to ever larger cartridges and slicker bullets for ELR, and those methods have been shown to have limits. Cartridges have stabilized around the 375 CT and 416 Barrett. The preferred bullet is the CE Lazer, even though there are slicker offerings.

    I use a cartridges overbore ratio as the starting point. It's the ratio of the case volume in grains of water to the bore ratio. It's also an imperfect metric to completely design your project with, but it's a broader perspective than drop and drift. It's closely tied to barrel life and the ability to shoot strings. If you assume a custom reamer that puts the same class of bullet for each caliber at the same position in the neck, the performance for a given overbore ratio for different calibers is similar. If there is a suitable bullet, there is a trend that favors the larger caliber. If there is a jump in bullet technology, a smaller caliber might offer more performance at the same overbore ratio.



    I've either tested the cartridges in red, or watched them tested on our range. Yellow backgrounds are barrels that were tested until they were done. The parts for the 300 Lapua are here, but it's waiting for the barrel on another action to die. Barrel life isn't a linear scale on this chart, as you go lower, they die harder deaths faster than a straight line suggests.

    Other things you can get from this perspective are an estimate of the QL scaling factor and powder to start testing with. You can use the scaling factor to balance the velocity and pressure estimates with your chrono and case measurements. I use 0.45 for 300wm and 338L, 0.4 for 338LI or 300 Norma, 0.35 for the 33XC and 0.3 for the 7/338LI. As far as powders, 6.5cm to 6xc work well with H4350, 7/300wsm is H4831, H1000 for 338L and 300wm, Retumbo for the 300 Norma and 338LI, H50bmg by the time we're to the 33xc.

    It gives an interesting perspective on the 33 and 37xc. Tubb dropped the 37xc into the 338 Lapua range, and the 33xc with the 416 Barrett.

    What does it take to shoot a mile? The wheels are falling off a 6.5cm, but it's entertaining to do. I watched a guy that knew what he was doing go 3/10 on a 20x30 plate at 2050 yards in afternoon winds without sighters. A mile is pretty easy with a long barreled 7/300wsm. You take a good guess about how well the cartidge you're thinking about using will do if you know its case capacity.

    How much does increasing the overbore ratio and cashing out barrel life actually buy? 3" of barrel will just about cover the difference between a 338L and 338LI. 37XCs and 338 Lapuas continue to do well in SW ULR matches. No amount of overbore will cover factory ammo velocity spreads.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by ShaunBrady; 01-21-2020, 11:43 AM. Reason: readded attachments

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    • #62
      focus
      Member
      • Mar 2016
      • 172

      I’m gonna move to a 338 Norma Magnum next. Using Shaun’s metric; 104/0.08813 = 1180, this combo will have a longish barrel life. Also, SOCOM’s adoption of this cartridge should create some interesting surplus offerings.

      But, the availability of Desert Tech SRS-A2 Conversion kits in 338 Norma Magnum is what moved this combo to the top of my list. The SRS-A2 has a huge magazine and I will be able to mag feed high BC bullets.
      Cheers,
      Last edited by focus; 01-21-2020, 4:18 PM.

      Comment

      • #63
        sigstroker
        I need a LIFE!!
        • Jan 2009
        • 19065

        All signs point to it being the new hotness.

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        • #64
          ar15barrels
          I need a LIFE!!
          • Jan 2006
          • 56932

          I would expect 1500-1600 rounds of accurate barrel life with that one before fliers start to be an issue.
          Randall Rausch

          AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
          Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
          Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
          Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
          Most work performed while-you-wait.

          Comment

          • #65
            LynnJr
            Calguns Addict
            • Jan 2013
            • 7946

            Focus
            I have a 338 Norma Ackley Improved reamer sitting here and BillyGoat Machine did a barrel for me.
            Slightly more accurate than the 338 Lapua and with jacketed bullets the overall length is only 3.600 inches.
            88 grains of powder.
            If you build one try a pound of Ramshot Magnum and let me know how it shoots. The Lapua with flatlines won't fit in a magazine due to the length but the Norma will.
            Last edited by LynnJr; 01-21-2020, 9:16 PM.
            Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
            Southwest Regional Director
            Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
            www.unlimitedrange.org
            Not a commercial business.
            URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!

            Comment

            • #66
              BigPimping
              CGN Contributor
              • Feb 2010
              • 21388

              Hope you're into reloading. Could get expensive.
              sigpic

              PIMP stands for Positive Intellectual Motivated Person

              When pimping begins, friendship ends.

              Don't let your history be a mystery

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              • #67
                StephanieLynn
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2013
                • 634

                Comment

                • #68
                  dozer wright
                  Veteran Member
                  • Mar 2012
                  • 2764

                  [QUOTE=sigstroker;23747657].277 SIG Fury.


                  I was reading up on 277 Sig Fury. My Ffl is trying to pre sell me a rifle. After reading up on it Chamber pressure is 80k psi. Allegedly a shooter may get 1500 to 2k rounds out of a 300 Winmag . At 65000 psi. So does another 15000 psi. Cut chamber life down to ?????
                  I also wouldn't buy a proprietary round. Watched to many nect best thing either completely get flushed or are circling the bowl.

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    ShaunBrady
                    Member
                    • Oct 2011
                    • 413

                    [QUOTE=dozer wright;23939334]
                    Originally posted by sigstroker
                    .277 SIG Fury.


                    I was reading up on 277 Sig Fury. My Ffl is trying to pre sell me a rifle. After reading up on it Chamber pressure is 80k psi. Allegedly a shooter may get 1500 to 2k rounds out of a 300 Winmag . At 65000 psi. So does another 15000 psi. Cut chamber life down to ?????
                    I also wouldn't buy a proprietary round. Watched to many nect best thing either completely get flushed or are circling the bowl.
                    Yes, more velocity from a given bullet and barrel will generally be harder on the barrel. In general though, raising peak pressure is easier on the barrel for a given velocity increase than raising average pressure with overbore cartridges.

                    Its a little like waving your hand over a candle compared to holding it there. For an instant, the bore is protected from the high gas temperatures because it's better connected to the larger mass of barrel steel than the burning gasses. With a massively overbore cartridge, the throat doesn't just die faster, the next 4-6" of barrel are torched as well because the pressure takes a lot longer to fall off. With the Fury, you have a hotter candle, but you don't have to hold your hand there as long.

                    Another 10 ksi of pressure is worth about another 100-125 fps. It takes a lot more case capacity to pull that off. It looks like the Fury is actually using both higher pressures and more case capacity to reach those velocities. Probably a proprietary powder as well.

                    One potential problem, for reloaders anyway, is jacketed bullet performance can be degraded when pressure limits are exceeded. That cartridge may not even be reloadable, but if it is, you may be stuck with bullets that are designed for those pressures. Even if non Sig bullets will work, why would a civilian want a high performance 270/6.8? 6.5 or 7mm wildcats would be interesting if some of the better bullets work at that pressure. I have zero interest in factory ammo.

                    There really isn't enough hard information available for that cartridge yet to draw many conclusions. I don't think I'll be preordering one, but I'm interested in how it works out and if the concept migrates to larger capacities and calibers.

                    Comment

                    • #70
                      devster55
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2012
                      • 2062

                      Originally posted by sfarchitect
                      OP, get your 338 LM. There's a lot of the usual random CG noise, wholly unrelated to what OP asked, in this thread. But there is some wisdom in the switchbarrel. The DTA-SRS is among the best of those.

                      You already reload. So you're well on your way. Much of your 'startup'/mobilization costs are already baked in.

                      A 338LM is an incredible cartridge. But contrary to what is said above, it really does not even stabilize until three hundred yards. So there is pretty much zero use in doing load development at fifty yards.

                      I got my 338LM gas gun just prior to the 01/01/17 deadline to do that in CA. This was how I started reloading. There were some ugly, and expensive lessons learned.

                      As said above, this is not a weapon you're going to shoot a thousand rounds in a weekend with, as a shooter might with an AR. Since you already reload, you just need to get a good set of dies. Please note, things like concentricity start making a big difference when shooting at a mile+.

                      But do spend the sheckels for the Lapua Brass, use H1000 powder and there's a ton of info out there

                      Develop a good load and you have a weapon that can accurately deliver more kinetic energy at a mile(!!), than a 44 magnum does at the muzzle. Sorry 300 Win Mag or 7mm fans, don't get me wrong here, those are great cartridges/calibers. But, they ain't a 338 LM. No way. No how. Have fun OP.
                      Good friends will come bail you out of jail. A best friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying damn that was fun!

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        LynnJr
                        Calguns Addict
                        • Jan 2013
                        • 7946

                        Devster55
                        We are holding a 2000+ yard match March 15th above UpperLake California.
                        I have four guns in 338 Lapua Ackley Improved and you are welcome to try them out free of charge.
                        Heck you might even win the match.
                        Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
                        Southwest Regional Director
                        Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
                        www.unlimitedrange.org
                        Not a commercial business.
                        URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          devster55
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2012
                          • 2062

                          Originally posted by LynnJr
                          Devster55
                          We are holding a 2000+ yard match March 15th above UpperLake California.
                          I have four guns in 338 Lapua Ackley Improved and you are welcome to try them out free of charge.
                          Heck you might even win the match.
                          I tried to PM LynnJr but it looks like he is banned. Anyone have another contact for him? Tried emailing him but no response.
                          Good friends will come bail you out of jail. A best friend will be sitting next to you in the cell saying damn that was fun!

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            ar15barrels
                            I need a LIFE!!
                            • Jan 2006
                            • 56932

                            Originally posted by devster55
                            I tried to PM LynnJr but it looks like he is banned.
                            Anyone have another contact for him? Tried emailing him but no response.
                            Found elsewhere on calguns:
                            Those interested in the NorCal shoot should contact the Regional Director for CA/NV, Lynn Dragoman, at rd-southwest@unlimitedrange.org
                            PM sent with what a web search found.
                            Randall Rausch

                            AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
                            Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
                            Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
                            Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns.
                            Most work performed while-you-wait.

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              Snakeyes
                              Junior Member
                              • Oct 2016
                              • 4

                              I have desert tech in 338 norma might just sell it

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