Project Howa (Ya Doin) 1500 .308 Heavy Barrel - Budget Long-Range Shooter

[American Muslim Gun Owner]

Hello Everyone,

I am buying one of the Howa 1500 .308 26" heavy barrel rifles from Turner's this week, and I'd like your input in setting it up.

My rifle experience includes shooting Ruger and Marlin .22 semi-autos out to 150 yards, as well as the occasional try at friends' centerfire rifle.

The application will be a long range toy. The majority of action it will see will be at the Angeles Range, so 600 yards, though I have recently heard they have expanded to a 1,000. There will be a few trips to the BLM land or Piru to really test its limits on paper as well as steel. Right now, the plan is to shoot for tight groups up to 500 yards, and steel beyond that. (Update: Project Phase 1 is keeping it to 500 yards on both paper and steel).

The goal is to keep it budget friendly, i.e. no more than a $1,000 into the whole thing (not including ammo and range accessories, of course).

Below is where I can use your help.

If my understanding of twist rates is correct, then the 1:10 twist rate will help lodge heavier bullets out just fine. So I'll be starting with the Federal Gold Match 168 and 175 gr ammo, unless there is something better out there (hopefully reloading down the line at some point). (Update: will be shooting 175 grain match ammo).

I checked the ballistics data on the Nikon Spot-On program for the Federal Gold Match 168 grain. At 1,000 yards (the maximum distance I will ever try), the chart shows that the bullet drops about 462.29 inches. If my math is correct, since 1 moa equals ten inches at 1,000 yards, then I need at least 47 moa of use-able elevation adjustment (462.29/10 = 46.229 inches) ?

Based on what I have read, the Hogue stock may be its weakest point and I'd like to upgrade it. I am split between a traditional stock or a chassis. I will shoot it as-is before deciding on an upgrade. Any recommendations are very much welcome. (Update: will be using the factory Hogue stock since the rifle comes with a sub-moa guarantee).

The scope is the trickiest item for me. Since I have decided that I want to keep it all around $1,000, I figure it would best to focus less on high magnification and more on a scope with good glass, as well as repeatable internal adjustment and a good warranty. While I do appreciate the simplicity of a fixed scope like the SWFA and the tons of adjustment it comes with, my concern is that my eyes are not that great. So perhaps something like a 4-16x scope from Vortex or Nikon may be better, as it will allow me to zoom in at different distances. Again, I can use recommendations and feedback here. (Update: purchased the Nikon Black FX1000 4-16x50 MRAD FFP scope).

For scope rings, I like the idea of using Warne. They are reasonably priced and seem very heavy duty. The Burris Signature rings will be the other option if needed, especially for the added moa. (Update: Purchased the Burris Signature XTR Rings in 1" height)

I have not decided which direction to go with on a scope base; whether to get a basic base (haha) or get something with 20 moa or more. The brands I am looking for the 20 moa base are Talley (PSM252150), Nightforce (A316), and EGW (81042). (Update: purchased the Burris Xtreme Tactical One-Piece 25-MOA base).

Thank you in advance for any feedback.

Project Name: Howa Ya' Doin'
Last Updated 1/27/2020


Phase 1: Basic Skills - Get Out There and Start Shooting - $1,000 / 500 yards

Goals: Buy and setup a rifle, scope, rings and base with a cost of $1,000 +/-. Break-in the rifle. Break-in the shooter. Keep costs to bare minimum to start shooting. Keep shooting limited to 500 yards maximum. Find ammo that works and stick with it. Write down everything. Read all advice, and then read it again twice. Ask questions. Ask follow up questions. Use what is proven to work.




Rifle Setup:


Rifle: Howa M1500 .308 26" Heavy Barrel (HGR73162+) from Turner's for $319.98 + Tax + DROS Fee + Turners Dealer Handling Fee = $378.42


Barrel: Stock, unmodified 26", 1:10 twist rate


Trigger: Stock HACT trigger.


Stock: Factory Hogue for now to see how well it lives up to the sub-moa guarantee


Scope: Nikon Black FX1000 4-16x50 MRAD (16512) from eBay seller webyshops. Arrived in 5 business days. $446.95 + Tax = $479.35


Scope Base: Burris Xtreme Tactical One-Piece Base with 25 moa cant (410655) from Optics Planet. Arrived in 5 business days, but everything was outside of the packaging. $48.99 - 5% discount with code Calguns + Tax = $50.96


Scope Rings: Burris XTR Signature Rings - 1" height (420221) from Brownell's. $99.95 - 10% discount with code T68 = $89.96.


Cheek Riser: ATI Universal Cheek Riser (UCR1900) directly from ATI Outdoors. Arrived in three business days. $8.99 + $4.88 Shipping = $13.87


Build Running Total: $378.42 + $479.35 + 50.96 + $89.96 + 13.87 = $1,012.56




Ammo:

Factory Ammo: Will be testing out match loads in the 175+ gr weight.

Aguila .308 150 gr FMJBT (1E308110) (for break-in and getting on paper) from Turner's - $12.99 (on sale) + tax = $14.13 / ($0.71/round)

Hornady Match .308 178 gr BTHP (8105) from RifleGear - $26.99 + tax = $29.35 / ($1.47/round)

Hornady Match Superformance .308 178 gr BTHP (8077) from Turner's - $35.99 + tax = $39.14 / ($1.96/round)

Sig Sauer Elite Match .308 175 gr OTM (E308M2) from RifleGear - $25.99 + tax = $28.26 / ($1.41/round)


Ammo Running Total: $14.13 + $29.35 + $39.14 + $28.66 = $111.28




Range Accessories:

If interested, Calguns members have given a tremendous amount of helpful info in this thread: Beginner Long-Range Shooter


Shooting Accessories:

Front Shooting Rest: ?

Bipod: Harris S-BRM 6-9" Swivel model and the KMW Lock Nut Pod-Loc from Brownells - $111.19 shipped (price approximate)

Rear Shooting Bag: Tab Gear Original Rear Bag for $20 and Str8Laced Ultralight Rear Bag for $60 directly from Tab Gear. Arrived in three business days.$92.79 shipped.

Shooting Mat: ?

Chamber Flag: ?


Carrying Accessories: from Natchez Shooters Supply with 10% discount for: $118.99 - 10% ($11.89) + Tax ($10.17) + Shipping ($14.31) = $131.57

Travel Case: ?

Backpack: ?


Data Collection Accessories:

Chronograph: Competition Electronics ProChrono DLX

Weather Data: WeatherFlow for Precision Shooting - $84.99 + tax = $92.64

Apps: Strelok

Targets: ?

Measuring Tools: ?

Log Book: Free and printable, thanks to broadside.


Cleaning Accessories:

Cleaning Kit: ?



Running Accessories Total: $111.19 + $92.79 + $131.57 + 92.64 = $428.19




Knowledge Base:

Calguns.net


Reading the Wind


Long Range Shooting Handbook: The Complete Beginner's Guide to Precision Rifle Shooting by Ryan M. Cleckner. ISBN 978-1518654725 - $21.94 new from Amazon.


Extreme Rifle Accuracy by Mike Ratigan. ISBN 978-0979252808. Out of print. $49 used from Abe Books.


Prone and Long-Range Rifle Shooting by Nancy Tomkins. ISBN 978-0972254434. Purchased directly from the author's website. $45 new.


Running Knowledge Base Total: $21.94 + $49 + $45 = $115.94



Running Grand Total: $1,012.56 + $111.28 + $428.19 + $115.94 = $1,667.97





Notes: Setting up the Scope

Scope Ring Height: At least 0.88" from top of the base to the bottom of the scope tube. Please see the calculations and pictures in Post #63.

Scope Ring Height Calculator: Scope Ring Calculator by mil-rad.com.

Scope specs listed at Midway USA.

Scope Objective Diameter: 2.37 inches / 60.198 mm

Tube Diameter: 1.1811 inches / 30 mm

Scope Rings: Burris XTR Signature 1" height.




Notes: Breaking In the Rifle
The user's manual does not include any information on factory recommended break-in. On their website, Legacy Sports does provide the info.

Phase 2: Fine Tune Fundamentals - 500 yards
For 2020

Goals: Improve fundamentals. Reassess equipment and replace or upgrade if needed. Start reloading. Find a load that works and stick with it.


Rifle: Depending on how the shooting goes in Phase 1, may nor may not upgrade the stock.


Optics Setup: No changes planned.


Ammo: Switch to reloading.


Reloading:

Use "Randall's "match ammo is too expensive" list." as a guide.

Reloading Manuals:

Press:

Dies

Case Lube:

Tumbler:

Dial Caliper:

Chamfer and Deburring Tool:

Hand Priming Tool:

Powder Scale / Dispenser:

MISC:

Bullets:

Powder:

Primer:

[WilsonLover]

[Tere_Hanges]

The one currently on sale is an even better deal than last month's because it comes with the "tactical" bolt handle. A $60 upgrade for only $20 more.

https://www.turners.com/howa/howa-long-range-m1500-hogue-30-728230

[American Muslim Gun Owner]

Thank you WilsonLover,

I am concerned about the flex in the Hogue stock as well. I was looking at the Bell & Carlson stock, and I came to the same conclusion as you. And the price is certainly attractive.The KRG chassis really looks good!

Thank you for the heads up on the Tibosaurus Rex videos. I will watch them in my down time. How far have you been able to use your SWFA? The mildot does look like it is simple enough for a noob like me to learn on.

The one currently on sale is an even better deal than last month's because it comes with the "tactical" bolt handle. A $60 upgrade for only $20 more.
https://www.turners.com/howa/howa-lo...ogue-30-728230

Thanks California, that's the one I am buying this week. They sold out at the store near me so they had to order it from another location. Hopefully DROSing this week!

[WilsonLover]

Thank you WilsonLover,



I am concerned about the flex in the Hogue stock as well. I was looking at the Bell & Carlson stock, and I came to the same conclusion as you. And the price is certainly attractive.The KRG chassis really looks good!



Thank you for the heads up on the Tibosaurus Rex videos. I will watch them in my down time. How far have you been able to use your SWFA? The mildot does look like it is simple enough for a noob like me to learn on.















Thanks California, that's the one I am buying this week. They sold out at the store near me so they had to order it from another location. Hopefully DROSing this week!

[American Muslim Gun Owner]

Thank you WL, great advice on all points.

I am very much a budget shooter, so no high tech gear for meat this time. The optics are what worry me the most, so I am focusing on buying that which meets my needs, but also gives me some wiggle room.

Math and physics are where its all at for me so that is why I am doing the math now before I buy components that may not help the intended goal. I am mentally preparing myself to take as many notes as possible when I start out. While I did not originally plan for it, now I am thinking about adding a chronograph.

And yes, connecting with steal at long range is very satisfying.

[mtenenhaus]

I would suggest perhaps shooting the platform as it is before changing out the stock...not saying that there aren't much better stocks out there.

Were it up to me, i'd make sure the barrel was free floating and all the screws are properly torqued....both easy to remedy if it isn't.

I'd spend comparatively more on quality glass.That said, if money's tight as it is for so many of us, i've heard some promising early reports on this new model https://www.bushnell.com/products/ma...copes-6-24x50/

For not a lot of money and only a little of your time you could glass bed the rifle...that's not terribly expensive and it's kind of fun to do as well. Doubt you'll bugger it up but if you do...well then you have your excuse to get a better/nicer stock.

Don't forget the option of reloading...another way to further improve precision while saving money.

BTW, EGW products have never let me down

[sigstroker]

Thank you WilsonLover,

I am concerned about the flex in the Hogue stock as well. I was looking at the Bell & Carlson stock, and I came to the same conclusion as you. And the price is certainly attractive.The KRG chassis really looks good!

Hoque makes a stock that looks the same as the pillar bedded model, but with a full-length bedding block. It's relatively cheap and likely won't flex much.

[WilsonLover]

[ar15barrels]

I checked the ballistics data on the Nikon Spot-On program for the Federal Gold Match 168 grain. At 1,000 yards (the maximum distance I will ever try), the chart shows that the bullet drops about 462.29 inches. If my math is correct, since 1 moa equals ten inches at 1,000 yards, then I need at least 47 moa of use-able elevation adjustment (462.29/10 = 46.229 inches) ?

Don't bother with 168's past 800yds.
They get very unreliable and often turn sideways making them un-usable for target shooting.
Stick to 175's beyond 800.
It's best to stick with just one load and shoot it at all distances.
That way you keep the gun zeroed and become very familiar with one load at all distances.

[GunnEnvy]

I was at Angeles for the first time a month ago and the max distance was 600 I believe. Can someone confirm they've expanded the public rifle range to 1000 yards? I'm going again end of this month and would love to give 1000 yards a shot.

Thanks!

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[American Muslim Gun Owner]

I would suggest perhaps shooting the platform as it is before changing out the stock...not saying that there aren't much better stocks out there.

Were it up to me, i'd make sure the barrel was free floating and all the screws are properly torqued....both easy to remedy if it isn't.

I'd spend comparatively more on quality glass.That said, if money's tight as it is for so many of us, i've heard some promising early reports on this new model https://www.bushnell.com/products/ma...copes-6-24x50/

For not a lot of money and only a little of your time you could glass bed the rifle...that's not terribly expensive and it's kind of fun to do as well. Doubt you'll bugger it up but if you do...well then you have your excuse to get a better/nicer stock.

Don't forget the option of reloading...another way to further improve precision while saving money.

BTW, EGW products have never let me down

Thanks mtenenhaus.

I will be starting out with shooting the rifle as-is first. Free-floating with some sandpaper should be easy enough, as well as the torquing of the action screws. As to bedding, is the factory Hogue stock worth bedding? I ask because all I ever read about budget rifles' stocks is that they are usually too flimsy to spend time and money on.

Thank you for the suggestion on the Bushnell scope. I see the pre-orders start today and the price is within my budget, so I will check it out.

Reloading is part of the future plans for this rifle, especially with the ammo laws.

Hoque makes a stock that looks the same as the pillar bedded model, but with a full-length bedding block. It's relatively cheap and likely won't flex much.

Thanks sigstroker.

I had no idea about the stock with the full-length bedding block. The price is certainly attractive.




Thanks WL.

Lol, I'm trying to avoid looking at the various chassis for that very reason haha! Knowing myself, I'll still be looking for deals come Black Friday. But I'm forcing myself to shoot the rifle as-is for a bit before upgrading. I figure if I spend more money on a good scope, it should force me to stay in my $1,000 budget.

Don't bother with 168's past 800yds.
They get very unreliable and often turn sideways making them un-usable for target shooting.
Stick to 175's beyond 800.
It's best to stick with just one load and shoot it at all distances.
That way you keep the gun zeroed and become very familiar with one load at all distances.

Thanks Randall.

I didn't think about staying with the same load from the start. That narrows down my shopping list.

I was at Angeles for the first time a month ago and the max distance was 600 I believe. Can someone confirm they've expanded the public rifle range to 1000 yards? I'm going again end of this month and would love to give 1000 yards a shot.

Thanks!

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

It was mentioned on their Instagram page a few months back. But I personally have not seen it.

[mtenenhaus]

AMGO,

I just saw this video from Brownells that shows a build using the already bedded stock the Sigstroker mentioned as well as the EGW scope rail. (I too had been thinking about picking up the rifle you mentioned but unfortunately i just can't handle the recoil of a .308).

Sure looks pretty easy and the stock is really reasonably priced especially if you don't want to spend $400-$1000 on a competition stock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=Z8872Z1QAz0

[sigstroker]

To clarify, the Hogue that the Howa comes with is probably the pillar bedded version. But you'll have to check, maybe they use the full bedding block version in the heavy barrel rifle.

You should shoot it first, because whatever stock it comes with, it still has a 1 moa guarantee.

[Tere_Hanges]

You should probably replace the stock at some point if you want to do some serious shooting. The Hogues work but they are very basic. I went with a chassis I found on fleabay for $350 and I love it. Just wish I had waited now to get the rifle with the tactical bolt handle. The standard bolt handle kinda sucks.