Anyone use a lever gun as a primary home defense gun?

[leadstorm]

I would trust any of my leverguns to defend the castle...if it was light enough to see.

I wouldn't want to put a modern sight on any of them, though. That makes them less-than-ideal at night.

Full disclosure: I'm neither a regular trap shooter (I prefer skeet) nor a soldier, and I won't stay at a Holiday Inn Express unless I absolutely have to...

[ChuckDizzle]

Chuck dizzy
I was the 1980 California state champion for trap and the 1990 runner up.
Your experience is you have never ever been shot.
I have already forgotten more about shotguns than you will ever know.
I just looked up all the previous champions and no Chuck Dizzy in ATA or PITA mentioned.

None of this matters, all we need to know about you is that you recommend #8 birdshot for home defense.

This proves that despite your experience of getting shot and not having significant injuries, or how many clay discs you shot out of the air, that you in fact are clueless to the defensive use of firearms.

If I need tips on how to swing on doubles or what choke to use at what station you'll be my guy, I promise.

When it comes to shooting at people, I'll trust the FBI, my combat experience, my NCO's, and hundreds of experts that caution against using #8 birdshot as a defensive load.

[TMB 1]

Mostly 7.62x39, one 7.62x54r.

Well if using lever rifle for HD I'd prefer a 32-20, 357 mag, 44mag, 45 Colt, 30-30 or 35 Remington,


but if you really like using xm193 you could get this https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...TO+20+5%2B1+Am

[ChuckDizzle]

Well if using lever rifle for HD I'd prefer a 32-20, 357 mag, 44mag, 45 Colt, 30-30 or 35 Remington,


but if you really like using xm193 you could get this https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...TO+20+5%2B1+Am

When I get a lever gun I'll probably go classic like .357, 30-30, or 45-70. A .357 would pair nicely with my Model 19.

[MyOdessa]

When I get a lever gun I'll probably go classic like .357, 30-30, or 45-70. A .357 would pair nicely with my Model 19.

So, for all your bluster, you don't own a lever action or know much about them, if you think that .357 lever action is a classic.

How silly of you.

[LynnJr]

None of this matters, all we need to know about you is that you recommend #8 birdshot for home defense.

This proves that despite your experience of getting shot and not having significant injuries, or how many clay discs you shot out of the air, that you in fact are clueless to the defensive use of firearms.

If I need tips on how to swing on doubles or what choke to use at what station you'll be my guy, I promise.

When it comes to shooting at people, I'll trust the FBI, my combat experience, my NCO's, and hundreds of experts that caution against using #8 birdshot as a defensive load.

Well those in the know need to help you out. They know a pistol would need to shoot a 500 grain projectile 1350 FPS to have the same energy as my #8 birdshot load. They can also tell you that your AR15 would need to shoot 250 grain bullets at 2700 FPS.
You knew that correct?
Next you would need to know what a cylinder bore barrel will pattern at 10 yards and you don't know that do you?

I work on a manure farm and my BullSh#t meter pegged itself when you said hundreds of experts said #8 birdshot isn't recommended for home defense.
You went over the top when you added in the FBI the Secret Service Military Leaders the head ballistician for Winchester and Stormy Daniels.
It would have been more credible for you to say I have no firsthand experience at all but from my military service I think an AR would work.
The reason I say that is some here might have military experience far more vast than yours. They might have been issued a trench gun and they might have been issued birdshot to go with it. Trench warfare is generally at longer distances than home defense but of course your hundreds of experts witnesses already told you that right?

[ChuckDizzle]

So, for all your bluster, you don't own a lever action or know much about them, if you think that .357 lever action is a classic.

How silly of you.

Pairing a lever action with the same cartridge as your revolver goes back 150 years.

My grandfather, and most of his fellow SASS and cowboy action competitors shot .38 special/.357 in their lever guns and revolvers.

And I don't own a lever gun yet because I have other priorities to spend money on practical firearms. A lever action rifle would be fun, but impractical, fun is as good a reason as any to buy a gun. I'm sure I'll buy a muzzle loader eventually too.

[ChuckDizzle]

Well those in the know need to help you out. They know a pistol would need to shoot a 500 grain projectile 1350 FPS to have the same energy as my #8 birdshot load. They can also tell you that your AR15 would need to shoot 250 grain bullets at 2700 FPS.
You knew that correct?
Next you would need to know what a cylinder bore barrel will pattern at 10 yards and you don't know that do you?

I work on a manure farm and my BullSh#t meter pegged itself when you said hundreds of experts said #8 birdshot isn't recommended for home defense.
You went over the top when you added in the FBI the Secret Service Military Leaders the head ballistician for Winchester and Stormy Daniels.
It would have been more credible for you to say I have no firsthand experience at all but from my military service I think an AR would work.
The reason I say that is some here might have military experience far more vast than yours. They might have been issued a trench gun and they might have been issued birdshot to go with it. Trench warfare is generally at longer distances than home defense but of course your hundreds of experts witnesses already told you that right?

You're grasping Lynn, #8 birdshot is stupid for home defense. No argument over credentials matter. Contact any credible defensive firearms instructor and ask them what they think of #8 for defense. Find me a gel video of #8 birdshot penetrating reliably to the 10-14" depth recommended by the FBI for defensive use.

I guess your limited experience of shooting dirt frisbees has led you to overestimate the power of dove loads.

[cal3gunner]

A lever gun you will have to leave loaded all the time. In the middle of the night it will be easy to fumble and drop rounds while trying to load it when you are half awake and stressed out.

Between a lever gun and a mini 14 I would choose the mini. Leave it unloaded with a 10 rd mag hidden next to it and a set of electronic earmuffs. Also mount a light to the mini which is easy to do.

I've shot a lot of 5.56 in hall ways and small rooms. They are loud. Electronic ear muffs will give you better than normal hearing and you won't go deaf if you have to set a few rounds off in a hallway.

Under stress it's easy to short stroke a lever gun. You want something simple for home defense. Minis work and are simple to use. Even if you miss, the sound alone will scare most inteuders running

[elSquid]

I work on a manure farm and my BullSh#t meter pegged itself when you said hundreds of experts said #8 birdshot isn't recommended for home defense.

#8 birdshot has low penetration in ballistic gel.

Shotgun world had a great shotgun ballistic gel page which is currently broken. Here's the internet wayback version of said page.

( This is all bare gel. Add clothing - like a leather jacket! - and penetration would be less. )

https://web.archive.org/web/20120207160258/http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=109958

FBI recommendation is 12-18 inches of penetration for a handgun round.

Four inches of penetration for #8 implies shallow - but gruesome - wounds. Hitting vital structures may be problematic.

The reason I say that is some here might have military experience far more vast than yours. They might have been issued a trench gun and they might have been issued birdshot to go with it. Trench warfare is generally at longer distances than home defense but of course your hundreds of experts witnesses already told you that right?

When was birdshot ever used as an anti personnel loading for military shotguns?

On the contrary, when the US Army issued shotguns in WWI, and the Germans lodged complaints that the shotgun was an inhumane weapon, 00 buck was the load.

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/10-1997.pdf

Joint Service Combat Shotgun Program
W. Hays Parks
Special Assistant for Law of War Matters,
Office of The Judge Advocate General, U.S. Army
Washington, D.C

<snip>

Shotguns were employed by United States Army and Marine
Corps units during the insurrection that raged in the Philippines
from 1899 to 1914, and by Brigadier General John Pershing in
the 1916 punitive expedition into Mexico in pursuit of Pancho
Villa. When World War I entered its stalemated trench warfare
phase, both French and British High Commands considered,
but rejected, the use of double-barreled shotguns in trench
defense. The rejection of their use was not due to any questions
as to their legality, but was due to the perceived ineffectiveness
of their light bird shot loads and, undoubtedly, the requirement
for and difficulty of frequent, quick reloading of a double-bar-
reled shotgun in close combat. When the United States entered
World War I in 1917, General Pershing was placed in command
of the American Expeditionary Forces (AEF). General Persh-
ing’s forces employed 12-gauge repeating (pump action) shot-
guns, loaded with six No. 00 buckshot shells, for close-range
defensive fires against enemy infantry assaults, trench raids,
and assaults on enemy trenches and machine gun positions.

The highly-effective use of the shotgun by United States
forces had a telling effect on the morale of front-line German
troops. On 19 September 1918, the German government issued
a diplomatic protest against the American use of shotguns,
alleging that the shotgun was prohibited by the law of war

<shrug>

-- Michael

[golfish]

A lever gun you will have to leave loaded all the time. In the middle of the night it will be easy to fumble and drop rounds while trying to load it when you are half awake and stressed out.

Between a lever gun and a mini 14 I would choose the mini. Leave it unloaded with a 10 rd mag hidden next to it and a set of electronic earmuffs. Also mount a light to the mini which is easy to do.

Might as well have a small bottle of Irish Cream half unscrewed and ready to go.

[kayaker]

I recently acquired a new Marlin 1894c .357 Magnum lever action rifle. It's nice and short and light, hold 10 rounds of .357 or 11 rounds of .38 it's a really nice little rifle and I wouldn't hesitate to use it for defence if needed. However, I keep a Glock model 22 with a tactical light in my bedroom and a short barrel shotgun with a light attached and magazine loaded with buckshot is always at the front inside my safe. That little Marlin is really cool and certainly a viable option but I think I own better guns for inside the home defense.

[ChuckDizzle]

Thanks for the cool history lesson, Michael.

[StuckInTheP.R.O.Ca]

You're grasping Lynn, #8 birdshot is stupid for home defense. No argument over credentials matter. Contact any credible defensive firearms instructor and ask them what they think of #8 for defense. Find me a gel video of #8 birdshot penetrating reliably to the 10-14" depth recommended by the FBI for defensive use.

I guess your limited experience of shooting dirt frisbees has led you to overestimate the power of dove loads.

Not only this but you would have a difficult time finding credible self defense experts who would recommend any birdshot much less #8. If I was forced to use birdshot as a defensive load it would be T, BBB, BB, B, #1, etc. My last choice would be a dove load.

[ChuckDizzle]

Not only this but you would have a difficult time finding credible self defense experts who would recommend any birdshot much less #8. If I was forced to use birdshot as a defensive load it would be T, BBB, BB, B, #1, etc. My last choice would be a dove load.

Well you clearly aren't state trap champion material.