ATF possibly classifying ar bolt uppers as firearms

[rm1911]

An AR upper absolutely can fire without the upper.
All you have to do it smack the back of the firing pin.



Using your logic, explain the FAL and the SCAR...
Both have lower halves that contain the complete trigger/hammer mechanism.
The upper halves only contains the barrel and bolt group, yet is considered to be the firearm.

Which is why I prefaced it with

[sigstroker]

FAL, SCAR, Ruger .22 pistol, etc all have the upper as the serial numbered part FROM THE MANUFACTURER. No AR-15 that I've ever heard of have the upper as the serial numbered part. It's just a part, like a magazine.

[JTROKS]

And the CZ Scorpion Evo’s Serial # is located where?

[MongooseV8]

An AR upper absolutely can fire without the upper.
All you have to do it smack the back of the firing pin.



Using your logic, explain the FAL and the SCAR...
Both have lower halves that contain the complete trigger/hammer mechanism.
The upper halves only contains the barrel and bolt group, yet is considered to be the firearm.

Using your logic a cartridge is a firearm. Or just a barrel is a firearm. All you have to do is smack the back of it.

The current legal definition of a firearm receiver houses the hammer, bolt, or breechlock AND a firing mechanism. An AR lower receiver houses the both the hammer and firing mechanism and the upper does not.

[ar15barrels]

It makes no sense. Just like most gun laws.

Truth.

[ar15barrels]

No AR-15 that I've ever heard of have the upper as the serial numbered part.

Some of the very first AR-57 uppers were serialized and sold as a firearm.
The early opinion on them was that because the upper held the barrel and the magazine that the ATF considered them firearms.
There was a huge uproar over this, but it eventually got resolved as they are now sold as accessory upper halves with no markings or FFL requirements.

[ar15barrels]

The current legal definition of a firearm receiver houses the hammer, bolt, or breechlock AND a firing mechanism.

Yet that definition is not universally applied...

[k1dude]

So now my upper is a firearm and my lower is another firearm. Yet neither can be fired by themselves.

If I put them together am I shooting 2 guns at once?

Typical liberal illogic.

[MongooseV8]

No your upper is not a firearm. The ATF cannot make up new rules or define laws. This will need to be settled through the courts. Im sure they will side with the ATF but for now an upper is just parts.

[bubbapug1]

If you think about it the ruling makes sense, especially for those with schizophrenia. Why NOT have one gun actually be two guns in one package so both your personality profiles can own one?

Dah!! Come on guys. Get a clue.

[ELR Researcher]

The current legal definition of a firearm receiver houses the hammer, bolt, or breechlock AND a firing mechanism. An AR lower receiver houses the both the hammer and firing mechanism and the upper does not.

Please provide the CA code citation for:

1. "firearm receiver"
2. "firing mechanism"

The Safety Harbor uppers (bolt action "uppers") include a bolt and firing pin. However, as best I know, in the normal course of being used (i.e., not banging on the firing pin with something that is NOT part of the manufacturer-provided part), they cannot cause the discharge of a loaded cartridge. Is that correct or incorrect?

Thanks.

[MongooseV8]

The regs are included in the op article. Some firearms do not follow the current definitions but that doesnt change the defintions.

Just like auto manufacturers dont always follow federal lighting regs sometimes.

[MongooseV8]

I also would like to point out that examples like the Ruger Mark I Standard were designed well before the 1968 definition was established, and the FN FAL was designed in another country then imported.

[augoldminer]

Under the upper being a firearm i can build unnumbered lowers for them without a mag well.
Bolt-together AR-15 lower receiver.

https://www.guns.com/2013/12/06/bolt-together-ar-15-lower-receiver-3d-printer-necessary/?fb_comment_id=491426050955507_2585558

Or with a mag well and also build a few extra parts with holes for a autosear but with out finishing the threads on it so that its not complete and not yet usable.