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  • #16
    sigstroker
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Jan 2009
    • 19778

    Originally posted by diver160651
    I think you're asking about "free-recoiling". I think the answer is a bit more complicated than yes or no. I am not a fan of free-recoiling, but I'll make an effort to explain what most are doing.

    You've seen my comunication via the keyboard and it often doesn't make sense or sound the way I intended. Apologies up front.

    F-class guys often free or semi-free recoil their bi-pods. They're interested only in as little shooter in their groups as possible and don't need to worry about self-spotting. Wind flags, practice sessions, spotters for longer ranges all fill in for the lack of self-spotting.

    With positional shooting or field shooting as you know, seeing the impact and misses is key.

    As an example of this, the move to lighter recoiling rounds like the 6mm, continues even inside the 6mm cartridges as people are stating to reconsider even the XC, Dasher, LR and BRX, for the 6BR, because they seem to mag feed a bit better now with the kits from PVA without the need for a control round feed action like the TL3. So with of these heaver rifles with lower recoiling 6mms like the BR, you can almost semi-free recoil and still see your impacts. While a few do indeed free-recoil, most try to use the best mechanics they can. It might be worth noting that bipods are not used in positional shooting nearly as much as they are in the staging area to hold up the rifles..
    I'm fairly certain I'm going the least hassle route with 6.5 CM. For matches, I would just use factory ammo, to take one variable out of the equation. I'd probably try to replicate the load for practice, to save money.

    Often when we see guys shooting off the bipods, on the bench or prone it is with either a much lighter system or larger caliber than you see in positional matches. These certainly take more shooter drive (bipod load) to see impacts than your 6mm positional gun. BUT, I think most people hear "load the bipod" they just WAY over do it. You'll often see guys using devices on a bench like a rug, or when shooting prone a matt that has a bi-pod damn or maybe just crazy spiked feet. This is usually a sign that these guys are over driving (over loading) the bi-pod to start with. These guys will see the crazy offsets when they change their load pressure.

    So the short answer to your first question is, no. But you're onto the correct logic in my opinion, trying to make both as close as possible. I do not free-recoil my bipods, nor do I on obstacles, but I try to stay consistent with just enough load or shooter in the gun so I can self-spot.. I think most positional guys try for the same, but some are free-recoiling.
    Makes sense. There seems to be a lot of positions where the bipod won't even be used on it's feet, like the cow gate, or roof peaks, etc.

    Scope Shading or shadowing, is slang for an old LR technique used especially when adj. parallax "side knobs" were not so prevalent. Prior to that, many were on the objective bell. If you were on the gun in final position, like in a hide, it was difficult to use. So you could pull your head back ever so slightly and reveal a shadow around the edge of the ocular. If you keep that shadow perfectly even around the edges it means you are looking straight thru the scope tube and that will aid in constancy and offset the parallax issues. I'm not suggesting run in a F-class or BR mach like that, but it is effective even today for some uses. You could probably run an entire mach positional mach using 400 parallax setting and still be fine. It is super fast but a bit crude.
    I see. Makes sense.

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    • #17
      diver160651
      Senior Member
      • Feb 2012
      • 1764

      FYI I primarily shoot 6.5 factory. I can’t keep up with the 6mm components and the reloading was killing me.

      Sure it is’t NOT going to let you self-spot if you're not behind the rifle like a 6Br. But the freedom of the readily available & cheap 6.5 match ammo makes my life way easier. It really is about as mainstream as the 308..

      The barrel life is not bad either, the rifle in that video had about 4K through it and will do at least two more matches.. although I have barrels just sitting to send to a smith. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed by the 6.5.


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
      Last edited by diver160651; 07-14-2018, 6:37 PM.
      D.I.Y. a Target Cam for ELR
      NOTE: images not all working correctly due to limitations on the site

      D.I.Y. Barricade simulator using RRS tripod.

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      • #18
        LynnJr
        Calguns Addict
        • Jan 2013
        • 7958

        So I just slide my bipods back on the rails until it is firmly in front of the obstacle and bag to help with the recoil.

        Confusion on this Diver.
        Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
        Southwest Regional Director
        Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
        www.unlimitedrange.org
        Not a commercial business.
        URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!

        Comment

        • #19
          ar15barrels
          I need a LIFE!!
          • Jan 2006
          • 57166

          Originally posted by LynnJr
          So I just slide my bipods back on the rails until it is firmly in front of the obstacle and bag to help with the recoil.

          Confusion on this Diver.
          When shooting over an obstacle, if you put the bipod out in front of the obstacle and rest the stock on top of the obstacle and then settle the bipod against the obstacle like you would your hand against a hand-stop on the stock, the gun recoils into the obstacle.
          The other option is to put the bipod behind the obstacle and then pinch the gun against the obstacle with your shoulder on the stock.
          Randall Rausch

          AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
          Handguns: www.handgunbarrels.com
          Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
          Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
          Most work done while you wait on a scheduled shop visit.

          Comment

          • #20
            sigstroker
            I need a LIFE!!
            • Jan 2009
            • 19778

            To clarify, an ARCA rail sits on the bottom of the stock/chassis. Any device attached to it can be quickly slid forward or back with the push of a button.

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            • #21
              diver160651
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2012
              • 1764

              General grouping question

              Originally posted by LynnJr
              So I just slide my bipods back on the rails until it is firmly in front of the obstacle and bag to help with the recoil.



              Confusion on this Diver.





              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
              Last edited by diver160651; 07-15-2018, 6:08 AM.
              D.I.Y. a Target Cam for ELR
              NOTE: images not all working correctly due to limitations on the site

              D.I.Y. Barricade simulator using RRS tripod.

              Comment

              • #22
                RNE228
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2013
                • 2458

                NPOA?

                If you get in position, scope on target, and ready to make your shot, close yours eyes and take a few breaths. Then open your eyes. Is the scope still in position on the target?

                If so, you need to reposition yourself, so when you close eyes, take a few breaths, and open again your still on target.

                Comment

                • #23
                  sigstroker
                  I need a LIFE!!
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 19778

                  Hey, did you know you're shootin with the wrong hand?

                  Also, you forgot yer magazine.

                  Comment

                  • #24
                    diver160651
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2012
                    • 1764

                    Originally posted by sigstroker
                    Hey, did you know you're shootin with the wrong hand?



                    Also, you forgot yer magazine.
                    D.I.Y. a Target Cam for ELR
                    NOTE: images not all working correctly due to limitations on the site

                    D.I.Y. Barricade simulator using RRS tripod.

                    Comment

                    • #25
                      LynnJr
                      Calguns Addict
                      • Jan 2013
                      • 7958

                      Originally posted by ar15barrels
                      When shooting over an obstacle, if you put the bipod out in front of the obstacle and rest the stock on top of the obstacle and then settle the bipod against the obstacle like you would your hand against a hand-stop on the stock, the gun recoils into the obstacle.
                      The other option is to put the bipod behind the obstacle and then pinch the gun against the obstacle with your shoulder on the stock.

                      Never seen any gun shoot well when it isn't allowed to recoil..
                      Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
                      Southwest Regional Director
                      Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
                      www.unlimitedrange.org
                      Not a commercial business.
                      URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!

                      Comment

                      • #26
                        diver160651
                        Senior Member
                        • Feb 2012
                        • 1764

                        General grouping question

                        Originally posted by LynnJr
                        Never seen any gun shoot well when it isn't allowed to recoil..
                        Last edited by diver160651; 07-15-2018, 10:36 AM.
                        D.I.Y. a Target Cam for ELR
                        NOTE: images not all working correctly due to limitations on the site

                        D.I.Y. Barricade simulator using RRS tripod.

                        Comment

                        • #27
                          LynnJr
                          Calguns Addict
                          • Jan 2013
                          • 7958

                          Diver
                          I see lots of shooters who are new rest there barrels on the front bag rather than the forend and I see the bipod guys resting there bipods against a front rest.
                          Those guns never shoot well.
                          The gun only moves an 1/8 inch before the bullet leaves the barrel and if that is not allowed accuracy always seems to suffer.
                          Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
                          Southwest Regional Director
                          Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
                          www.unlimitedrange.org
                          Not a commercial business.
                          URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!

                          Comment

                          • #28
                            diver160651
                            Senior Member
                            • Feb 2012
                            • 1764

                            General grouping question

                            Originally posted by LynnJr
                            Diver

                            I see lots of shooters who are new rest there barrels on the front bag rather than the forend and I see the bipod guys resting there bipods against a front rest.

                            Those guns never shoot well.

                            The gun only moves an 1/8 inch before the bullet leaves the barrel and if that is not allowed accuracy always seems to suffer.
                            Last edited by diver160651; 07-15-2018, 4:01 PM.
                            D.I.Y. a Target Cam for ELR
                            NOTE: images not all working correctly due to limitations on the site

                            D.I.Y. Barricade simulator using RRS tripod.

                            Comment

                            • #29
                              ar15barrels
                              I need a LIFE!!
                              • Jan 2006
                              • 57166

                              Originally posted by LynnJr
                              Never seen any gun shoot well when it isn't allowed to recoil..
                              We understand that you only know how to shoot well in free recoil.
                              Please understand that there are also other people who do not shoot in free recoil and they can also shoot very well.
                              Randall Rausch

                              AR work: www.ar15barrels.com
                              Handguns: www.handgunbarrels.com
                              Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com
                              Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com
                              Most work done while you wait on a scheduled shop visit.

                              Comment

                              • #30
                                LynnJr
                                Calguns Addict
                                • Jan 2013
                                • 7958

                                I hunt and shoot in many forms of competition and if your trying to BS me that a rifle that has its bipod locked solid against a fixed object shoots well it tells me very loud and clearly how your rifles shoot.
                                The visitors to this forum don't even know what free recoil is but telling them pinned guns shoot well is your worst post ever if that is what your trying to say?
                                They can also call people who have forgot more than you will ever know those being the guys at Sierra bullets and simply asking them.
                                I suppose recoil lugs banging into a front rest also improves accuracy?
                                If you can't offer good advice it is often better to keep your mouth shut if you haven't got a clue and on this one you are clueless.
                                A pinned gun means your hand or shoulder is applying force to the forend or buttstock.
                                Pinning the back of a bipod against a solid rest means you will be breaking the bipod off soon and your accuracy is garbage.
                                There is a difference.
                                Last edited by LynnJr; 07-15-2018, 10:34 PM.
                                Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
                                Southwest Regional Director
                                Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
                                www.unlimitedrange.org
                                Not a commercial business.
                                URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!

                                Comment

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