Flash Compensator on Magpul Hunter 700?

[touchesthewater]

Hi, quick background I am new to the rifle scene and hunting. I'm excited about what I will learn and the opportunities I will have. I just have a few questions because I want to be in compliance of the CA laws.

I've spent a lot of time looking on the forums, the internet and the CA Assault Weapon Flow chart but couldn't find any specific answers for bolt action.

I'm planning on building a Remington 700, 16.5" and swapping the stock for a magpul hunter 700. I also wanted to do the magpul extendable magazine conversion. Now comes my questions.

1. Is a flash compensator recommended for hunting and target shooting? And if so will my bolt action R700 still be in compliance if I add a compensator when it already has detachable magazines or does it become an assault weapon?

2. From what I understand suppressors (silencers) are not CA compliant. However, can I purchase one and use it if I hunt out of state? Or is the silencer being in my possession already out of compliance?

Thank you for your time and help.

[vliberatore]

No assault weapon restrictions on bolt action rifles.

As far as I know it, you cannot purchase a suppressor to use elsewhere if you reside in Ca. I know there are exceptions to this (LLC, trust, etc) but the general answer is "no".

[NorCalFocus]

Also your don't want a flash comp. Get a muzzle break.

[ar15barrels]

2. From what I understand suppressors (silencers) are not CA compliant. However, can I purchase one and use it if I hunt out of state? Or is the silencer being in my possession already out of compliance?

You can purchase a suppressor in another state that you are a resident of and keep it at your residence in that other state.
You would not likely be able to get the CA permits that are necessary to bring it to California.

[touchesthewater]

Thanks for all the feedback!

[dsouza411]

I would recommend slapping on a brake, like others have stated. On my personal equipment, I run an American Precision Arm's Little Bast and it definitely gets the job done.

https://www.americanprecisionarms.com/products-page/muzzlebrakes/gen-ii-little-bastard/

[Stumpfenhammer]

I'm building a very similar rifle: Magpul Hunter 700 stock, Defiance DBM action, and Proof Research 16.5 .308 barrel (carbon fiber). I was originally thinking of going with the APA Little Bastard brake, but since this rifle is intended to fill a 0-600 yard range home/truck defense role I'm thinking the SureFire Warcomp might be the way to go.

The Little Bastard is really loud, but it's a great brake and if you want to call your own shots at distance that would be my recommendation as well.

[desert dog]

For a hunting rifle, stay away from muzzle brakes and there is absolutely no need for a flash hider.

When hunting and shooting from hunting positions, you feel no recoil.

Also, about 50% of the time when I shoot an animal, the shot presents itself so fast that I don't have time to put on ear protection. I have seen countless animals lost because the shooter was fumbling with ear protection and missed their opportunity. This is no big deal for 1 shot without a muzzle brake, but with one installed my ears would probably explode. If you hunt with guides, they will greatly appreciate it if you left the muzzle brakes at home.

Basic guidelines:

1) BENCH SHOOTING / LONG RANGE TARGET = Muzzle brake. Decreases the increased felt recoil from shooting off a bench. Also allows a long-range target shooter to better follow his bullet path/POI and make wind adjustments. The more effective a muzzle brake is, the louder it is.

2) TACTICAL / MILITARY / SHTF = Flash suppressor. Hides (minimizes) the flash signature for better concealment of position. Also minimizes interference with night vision optics.

3) HUNTING = No muzzle device. Animal don't care about flash signature. Only the 1st shot counts and it will not be at long ranges, so no need to follow bullet path/POI. Also, the unbearable noise level negates ANY small advantage to recoil reduction in a stressful hunting situation.

4) ANY RIFLE = Sound Suppressor. Minimizes flash, tames recoil, and makes noise levels safe. May make some hunting rifles too long to be practical in wooded areas. Not legal in California.

[Stumpfenhammer]

For a hunting rifle, stay away from muzzle brakes and there is absolutely no need for a flash hider.

When hunting and shooting from hunting positions, you feel no recoil.

Also, about 50% of the time when I shoot an animal, the shot presents itself so fast that I don't have time to put on ear protection. I have seen countless animals lost because the shooter was fumbling with ear protection and missed their opportunity. This is no big deal for 1 shot without a muzzle brake, but with one installed my ears would probably explode. If you hunt with guides, they will greatly appreciate it if you left the muzzle brakes at home.

I don't disagree with the reasons Desert Dog gave, but I can offer an alternate perspective on the brakes-for-hunting issue based on the way I hunt.

One-shot stops are not a given and some animals such as Elk and Aoudad can soak up quite a bit of lead if you don't place your shot correctly. On an un-braked rifle in .308 and larger calibers most people momentarily lose the sight picture due to recoil. This is even more pronounced with lighter rifles and/or hotter cartridges.

A muzzle brake and good technique make it more likely that you can keep your scope/eyes on the animal to see trace and/or impact for follow-up shot correction.

At longer ranges you'll likely have your scope at higher magnification which means you'll also have a reduced field-of-view. If the animal bolts after a poorly placed first shot it can be challenging to quickly find it in the scope again and you run the risk of losing it and/or inflicting unnecessary suffering. Again, a brake paired with technique can make it possible to keep eyes on the target during recoil.

If you use a brake without hearing protection you are going to suffer hearing damage. Hearing damage is cumulative, and some people are more susceptible than others: You could experience quantifiable damage the first time, or it could take numerous exposures. A braked rifle produces higher decibels at the shooter's ear, but both braked and un-braked rifles are loud enough to permanently damage your hearing.

I use Surefire Sonic Defenders when I hunt--they are inexpensive, fairly comfortable, you can still have conversations, and they offer a decent level of protection. I'm probably going to switch to in-ear electronic protection in the near future so I can also have the benefit of sound enhancement. Both of those can and should be left in the ear for the entire hunt, so no reason to fumble with muffs or foamies right before you take the shot.

The main takeaway should be -- if I don't wear ear protection when I shoot rifles, I'm damaging my hearing.

[desert dog]

One-shot stops are not a given and some animals such as Elk and Aoudad can soak up quite a bit of lead if you don't place your shot correctly. On an un-braked rifle in .308 and larger calibers most people momentarily lose the sight picture due to recoil. This is even more pronounced with lighter rifles and/or hotter cartridges.

At longer ranges you'll likely have your scope at higher magnification which means you'll also have a reduced field-of-view. If the animal bolts after a poorly placed first shot it can be challenging to quickly find it in the scope again and you run the risk of losing it and/or inflicting unnecessary suffering. Again, a brake paired with technique can make it possible to keep eyes on the target during recoil.
.

We will have to respectfully agree to disagree.

At less than 300 yards, there is absolutely no reason to crank up a scope so much that you lose good FOV. I do 90% of my shooting between 1 and 6 power (mostly 4 power because I always set my rifle there during the stalk and end up taking a quick shot of opportunity). Many hunters get too crazy with magnification and it hinders their ability to find, track, and follow-up while looking through an optic. For the exception of sheep hunting, someone is a poor hunter if they can not get within 1-3 hundred yards of their game. Follow-up shots are super easy at that distance (as long as you can resist the urge to admire your own shot, lol).

Also, you will most likely be taking shots standing or kneeling; whether off sticks, against an object, or off-hand. With the best muzzle brake made, you will not be able to follow a bullet trace or keep a scope at 16 power on a target while shooting from those positions. What is possible off of a bench or prone with a bipod is rarely applicable to the field, and sometimes a hindrance. How is someone going to make a follow-up shot on a fleeing animal if you are laying prone with a bipod??? (not going to happen)

I hunt with rifles up to 416 rem mag every year and have never had a problem getting a quick follow-up due to the absence of a muzzle brake. After the shot, I have both eyes open while maintaining my cheek weld, and track my animal until I need to close an eye and make another shot. Even if I lose my focus during the shot for whatever reason, I am always right back on the animal.

Also, something that wasn't really brought up initially; The hearing damage from a muzzle braked magnum WHILE wearing hearing protection CAN BE greater than the noise from an un-braked rifle with NO hearing protection. I remember a study on the old highroad forums where the tested Weatherby magnum was louder with a muzzle brake than the 25dB earmuffs could compensate for. Even a lowly 308 can be almost 3 times louder with a brake on it. Muzzle brakes don't just add a little bit of noise, they amply it by a very large amount.

I have never seen a professional hunter or top recreational hunter use a muzzle brake on anything but a sheep rifle (and even that is rare). The only people I see using them are those unethical D-bags on Best of the West TV shows that edit their 900 yard kills to make it look like a 1-shot kill. Most African and European PHs will ask you to remove one, and many American guides are asking the same. Nobody with a ported shotty will be allowed in a duck blind.

With the hearing protection; yep I always take my earpros with me. I can hear people talking with them on, but can't hear the faint sounds of game moving or the quiet whispers of a PH giving me instructions while he studies the target through binos. I probably wear them about 50% of the time when I take a shot and do not have time to put them on. I know it is not politically correct to do so anymore, but a shot outdoors while hunting has never caused me any issues. I really should try some of the expensive hi-tech electronic plugs that out now. A hunter at the lodge during my trip to Africa this April had a set and really liked them.

[TKCastle]

Im shooting a 700 16.5 with an APA little bastard, and you are not calling no shots on your own, sorry it just won't happen. Talk rearward recoil all you want, it just won't happen.

[desert dog]

Im shooting a 700 16.5 with an APA little bastard, and you are not calling no shots on your own, sorry it just won't happen. Talk rearward recoil all you want, it just won't happen.

The Op is talking about a hunting rifle. There is no "shot calling" on a 100 yard shot on a blacktail. You shoulder the rifle and pull the trigger.

[Stumpfenhammer]

The Op is talking about a hunting rifle. There is no "shot calling" on a 100 yard shot on a blacktail. You shoulder the rifle and pull the trigger.

With all due respect I never mentioned a "100 yard shot on a blacktail"...I did write "the way I hunt" though, and my post was primarily in the context of shooting at longer distances. The longest hunting shot I've taken was a hog at 596 yards. Position was seated cross-legged on a slope, forend over a low branch, four fingers wrapped around the forend, thumb around the branch, backpack pulled in tight against my chest to stabilize the butt, with a Savage Precision Carbine (20" .308)...and I watched the bullet impact.

Now, before the "long-distance hunting is unethical" lecture starts: I put the work into learning how to shoot at distance and I don't take shots I'm not confident I can make under the conditions. For practical precision rifle competitions, making good hits out to 1,200 on steel using a 6 or 6.5 is not a huge feat if the wind cooperates, so for a trained and capable shooter a 600-yard hunting shot in good conditions is no big deal. The last Aoudad I took was right at 320 (6.5CM) but the two guys I was with made shots just over 500 and 600, one shot kills each (300WM). Both of them had been through long-range shooting schools and one is a PRS competitor. 600 yards for hunting is where I hold the line for myself, but that's a chip shot for some. Coincidentally, some of my worst hunting shooting has been under 100 yards (had a miss at 40 on a hog busting out between two patches of brush and a lousy placement on a Kudo at 70 yards in a similar scenario) and I suspect that's because the longer distance shots give you more setup time.

You wrote that "someone is a poor hunter if they can not get within 1-3 hundred yards of their game". I've gotten to bow distance a number of times, but I understand you may think hunting over a certain distance isn't "real" hunting--I just think they are just different kinds of hunting, each with unique challenges and requirements, and one isn't more right than the other. After all, both of us qualify as "poor hunters" compared to bow hunters.

I can see from the beautiful zebra and your posts that you are a serious hunter, but I wonder how many of the hardline under "300 yards" guys are just projecting their own shooting limitations. I've seen guys that were consistently sloppy hunters under 200 yards, and I know guys that regularly make much longer kills, cleanly and consistently.

Im shooting a 700 16.5 with an APA little bastard, and you are not calling no shots on your own, sorry it just won't happen. Talk rearward recoil all you want, it just won't happen.

I do it every time I shoot .308 and 6.5CM off a bipod, as do PRS competitors every time they shoot prone in a match. The lighter the rifle the harder it is...but I've seen Jacob Bynum at Rifle's Only demonstrate it with a .50 BMG. Here he is doing it with a .300WM, standing: https://youtu.be/Ndc_NVGEt24

Now, with that scope I wouldn't be surprised if he's at about 17-18 LBS so that helps, but it is 300WM, he is not in the prone position, and that brake isn't nearly as effective as the APA Little Bastard. I don't know how light a rifle would have to get before you couldn't maintain sight picture through recoil, I just know that the lightest rifles I've done it with have been a braked 6.5CM that weighs 12 lbs loaded and with bipod and optic, and an un-braked .308 that weighed between 9 and 10 lbs all in.

Can't show Jacob without Frank: https://youtu.be/sqFH0A7Py1Q

At less than 300 yards, there is absolutely no reason to crank up a scope so much that you lose good FOV.

Agreed, I was referencing "longer ranges" than 300 yards.

you will not be able to follow a bullet trace or keep a scope at 16 power on a target while shooting from those positions.

You may be right, for me at least...I can't speak to 16X for positions other than prone, I need to go experiment. I did maintain the sight picture and see my impact on the 596-yard hog shot though. I can't remember what power I had it set to, 10X if I had to guess.

The hearing damage from a muzzle braked magnum WHILE wearing hearing protection CAN BE greater than the noise from an un-braked rifle with NO hearing protection.

That is interesting. I'd like to know more and will dig into it, but if you find a reference online please PM me.

Lastly, I don't doubt that your experiences are valid, that some of mine may not apply to how you like to hunt, and that a brake would not be right for you. I'm just sharing experience from the singular perspective of a guy who has a fair amount of formal long-distance schooling, some long-range competitive experience, and a moderate amount of hunting experience, both DIY and guided.

[desert dog]

With all due respect I never mentioned a "100 yard shot on a blacktail"....

That is because you are confusing posts. I was replying to TKcastle's post. The Op is not talking about using a muzzle devise on a bechrest or competition rifle. He specifically stated that this rifle is for hunting. Other than the Best of the West TV show, I have NEVER seen a hunter "call shots" on an animal. It was a response to his post, not yours. Many non-hunters confuse the line between shooting at paper and harvesting a live animal. I do both, and they are as different as night and day (as are the optimal equipment requirements).

I hunt very frequently as well as competition shoot 1000 yards at Coalinga. I am fully aware of the advantages of brakes for certain types of shooting (target/tactical) and their disadvantages for others (hunting).

It is (almost) a free country and people can install a device that makes their gun 2-3 times louder whenever they want if they think it makes their hunting experience better. My point is that it will not make the hunting experience better for your ears and for others around you (guides/trackers almost never wear ear protection in the field). And as a fellow hunter, you will most likely agree that you just don't feel recoil while hunting.

I know a new trend among custom hunting rifle builders is to thread the barrel and provide 2 items:
1) A muzzle brake to use during zeroing and load development.
2) An precision weighted thread protector that will not change POI from the muzzle brake, to be used while hunting.

I do my load development on my heavy recoilers with a lead sled, so really have no need for that.