There's never a simple answer...

[Bushwack44]

There's a saying: Ask 3 clergy the same question and you'll get three different answers. I'm finding that to be true regarding rifle choice and calibers.

My objective is finding a bolt action rifle, scope and caliber for Sunday fun range shooting to 300 yards that doesn't have much recoil (for about $600). Not just for myself but my 15 year old nephew who, other than a 10/22, has little experience with rifles.

I was two clicks away from getting a Mossberg Patriot in 243 w/ a Vortex scope (http://www.mossberg.com/product/moss...-walnut-27939/) when I was lead to this site - http://www.sniperforums.com/. Terrible idea going there (and having spent much of my morning reading various threads) as I'm now more confused then ever.

My take is those forum participants are die hard 'snipers' and therefore anything but a Remington is garbage. With that understanding, no matter how often a newbie would ask for a beginners rifle recommendation on a budget, the only constant in most responses was to get a rifle (Remington) in 308.

Moving forward so this post doesn't drag, which caliber is better for recreational range shooting (no hunting) - a 243 (which many here seem to like along with the .223) or 308? What I read, a barrel in 243 is only good for 1,500 rounds before it shows signs of failure/poor accuracy. On the flip side, a 308 barrel is thicker with significantly more recoil.

Is there an easy answer?

On a related note, what is it about Mossberg or Ruger rifles that make people (at least in that forum) consider it the Yugo of rifles? Other than there are many more after-market accessories for Remingtons, are these two (and similar rifles) that bad? I figure not or they would have been out of business years ago. I'm wondering if I'm missing something?

Geez...it was easier finding a girlfriend than choosing a rifle.

[5.56Geo]

Nope, nothing simple about choosing a caliber and rifle!

If you are only going out to 300 yards I would choose the .223/5.56 in a 1/7 to 1/8 twist.

As far a rifles; Remington 700, Howa, Ruger, Savage, take your pick. I have seen all shoot well.

[Aeonstar]

there is no right choice, Do not over think it!!! this will not be your last rifle you buy.

So of the two you mentioned 243 and 308 they are related. The 243 is a 308 case shooting a 243 bullet. Yes it will wear out a barrel faster but we are talking about a lot of shots. The recoil is less than and 308.

if you are just pinking then a .223 might be just the ticket. very light recoil and easy to shoot

[billped]

Think cost. .223/5.56 is under $0.40/rd, .308 is roughly double that. After a while, ammo cost exceeds rifle cost.

[1859sharps]

My objective is finding a bolt action rifle, scope and caliber for Sunday fun range shooting to 300 yards that doesn't have much recoil (for about $600).

can you clarify if $600 is for rifle only or everything.

... anything but a Remington is garbage ....

There is some truth to this. But from what you state as your intended purpose of this future rifle... you can probably dismiss this and not worry about it. however, there is for sure rifles out there that once you start doing more than some occasional and casual shooting really start showing their negatives.

only constant in most responses was to get a rifle (Remington) in 308.

given certain contexts and intended uses, this is actually excellent advice. Again what you have shared so far, I think you can set this aside for now.

which caliber is better for recreational range shooting (no hunting) - a 243 (which many here seem to like along with the .223) or 308? What I read, a barrel in 243 is only good for 1,500 rounds before it shows signs of failure/poor accuracy. On the flip side, a 308 barrel is thicker with significantly more recoil.

.243 is a good round and 308 really doesn't have that much "recoil". with 308 you only get a "thicker" barrel if you buy a "thicker" barrel. there are some pretty "thin" barrels out there in 308 because they are intended for occasional shooting in a mostly hunting context.

recoil is mostly in our heads due to improper mounting of the rifle. a good rifle, with a good stock, properly mounted to our shoulders and in 308 has very little felt recoil for a 30 cal round.

given what you indicate you will be doing, I would give some serious thought to a 223 rifle with at least a 1 in 9 twist.

for light, occasional shooting...any major manufacture will do. it is only when you start really running a whole lot of rounds through a rifle that now you start needing to think Remington as the least you will buy.

what is a whole lot...that depends on a lot, but it is far more than a half a dozen trips to the range a year where you might shoot 100 or less rounds per trip. when you start talking 1000's a rounds a year then just any rifle ceases to be an option and you need to up your budget and think nothing less than Remington.

[hecomp]

I was in the same boat as you a few months ago. I just wanted a decent bolt action rifle for casual plinking at the range while introducing a few friends to the sport.

After getting some feedback from the members here, I ended up with the Savage 11-VT in .223 (thread here).

The rifle has been a good shooter for my needs without breaking the bank.
For me, the .223 caliber is the right balance of recoil, affordability and "boom" factor lol!

I'm sure any brand will suit you just fine. Remington and Savage both have rebates that might be worth looking into as well.

[CSACANNONEER]

If you don't reload, get a .223 for a 300 yard range toy. If he is thinking of using it for a deer rifle, .243 would be a better choice. BTW, barrel thickness isn't the reason .243s are barrel burners. It's just an overbored round. The barrel is eroded from the inside, not the outside so, barrel thickness isn't the main reason for wearing out barrels.

[Wrangler John]

If you want to buy a package that includes everything ready to go, there is this:

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/Axis2xphardwood

It's a good start, being able to do everything you want to do. I would prefer the the .223 Remington cartridge for a plinker, and this rifle is equipped with a 1:9" twist barrel, which I use for all my bolt action varmint rifles.

Then there's this for MSRP of $599.00, (probably discounted somewhere) that's available in .223 Remington, with a 1:9" twist, has an adjustable length of pull with spacers, and should do nicely - there is also an accuracy guarantee, but don't put too much stock in that, accuracy is relative to the shooter and ammo. You still gotta buy a scope and mounts.

http://www.weatherby.com/products/rifles/vanguard-synthetic-compact.html

Keep searching, there are many choices, and the Mossberg isn't such a bad choice either. Here's a review on the Mossberg, although in .308 Winchester:

http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2015/1/20/hardware-new-mossberg-patriot/

Don't worry too much about this or that rifle being a Yugo, my first rifle was a $30.00 surplus U.S. Rifle, cal .30, Pattern of 1917. Oh lord, how far we have come.

[Bushwack44]

All great advice. Advice that makes sense (at least to me). Thanks and very much appreciated. Finally some clarity that puts me on the right path.

Indeed, I am over-thinking this and that has to stop. There is more than one caliber choice to achieve 2 or 3 specific objectives for a range rifle.

To address some posts, I have an AR in 223/556 (yes, different platform) but prefer not getting a rifle in the same caliber. The $600 cost range is for a rifle & scope (possible if going with a Remington 783, Mossberg Patriot or a Savage 11).

Realistically, rifle will eventually get upgraded (actually, passed on to my nephew). All the more reason I want to spend around $600.

Getting back to not overthinking, I'll probably choose either a Mossberg Patriot or Remington 783 (again, staying around $600). Both get favorable reviews with the Remington name obviously receiving more attention. Since a 243 has less recoil (thinking more regarding my nephew), that will be the caliber of choice. Also, by the time skills reach the level of accurately hitting out 300 yards, a new rifle will be in order (like pistols, you can never stop at one...or two...or three..).

ONE MORE THING...If I was to go with a Rem 783, will the rifle be 'compromised' changing out the stock (to one from Boyds)? Would this still be a free floating barrel using a Boyd's stock?

[Divernhunter]

For what the OP stated his purpose will be a 223 is my first choice and I own quite a number of different brand rifles shooting different cartridges. It will last longer than a 243 or some other cartridges, cost less to shoot, have less recoil which is important for new shooter especially and is a pleasant round to shoot a large number of shots in a given day. Even a 243 or 308win will get hard on the shoulder with a lot of shooting and the ammo bill get high real fast.
The anything that is not Rem is garbage is just plain BS and wrong. There are rifles better than Rem---especially recently where their QC is spotty. Some of the pinheads who especially do not have experience with rifles, just repeat what someone told them, only remember the days when there was only a couple of brand choices, have not shot other rifles, buy the Rem to change everything on it(trigger, stock, blueprint the action, replace barrel) then say it is a good rifle because you have lots of sources to modify it etc are the ones who say unless it is a Rem it is not good. Just stupid sheep

Ruger American, Savage (with accru-trigger), Mossberg, Tikka, Howa, Weatherby Vanguard (which is a Howa) are all excellent choices for lower cost quality rifles. There are also some others I may have forgotten.

Yes OP there are many choices. That is good but do not get overwhelmed. I suggest you buy what YOU like and what FITS you(and the kids)---not what some keyboard commando who (may have just been a sheep themselves) thinks YOU should buy. It may even be the correct choice FOR THEM but you are looking for the correct choice for YOU!

If you where near me you could try out my rifles to help you choose.

PS --As for optics stay away from the junk like BSA but for casual paper punching you do not need a Leupold or Nightforce.. PicK a good quality(if you want to get a Leupold or Nightforce do so as they are great scopes) mid-priced scope with a 40-44mm OB lens in anything from 3X9 to 6.5-20. I find duplex reticles work just fine. No need to target turrets but they are ok.
You also do not need very costly rings/bases to work fine

[LynnJr]

Remington 700 ADL in 223 would be my choice. It comes with a 26 inch barrel and a scope and sells for $450.
Once you shoot out the barrel the action is worth $400 so you can't go wrong.
The reason the Snipershide forum all recommended the Remington is because it's a better platform than all the other mass produced guns available today.
Oh yeah you can get the ADL in 223 or 308 so either way the price is the same.
The 308 is a fun little round that is very accurate. The 243 is just a 308 necked down to 6mm as posted earlier but it is ballistically superior to the 308.
Once you hotrod an engine for more performance it wears out faster and the same is true of rifles.

[Sutcliffe]

300 yards is pretty short range

The .223 will work just fine for what you have in mind. At longer distances you could make the argument for .308
There are quite a few rifles right out of the box that will suit your needs.

[TMB 1]

ONE MORE THING...If I was to go with a Rem 783, will the rifle be 'compromised' changing out the stock (to one from Boyds)? Would this still be a free floating barrel using a Boyd's stock?

The barrel will still be free floating with a Boyds stock.

[killshot44]

Bushwacker,
I'd also recommend the .223 but your mind seems set on the .243 which is also a good choice for the reasons you mentioned and one other: the .243 action (specifically the bolt head size) will allow you to change to a number of cartridges (i.e.: .308, 6.5CM) just with a barrel change. The .223 bolt will only work for .204Ruger and .222&.223 Remington cartridges.

The Boyd's stock should free float any factory barrel, at most requiring minor sanding of the barrel channel in the stock.

View the scopes included in any package deal critically as you'll get better quality by purchasing it separately.
A little more spent now ($200) will payoff in the long run. Remember that you'll spend more money on ammo in a year than what the rifle costs today; frugal is fine but cheap usually costs you more later.

[Bungi]

I would recommend a Tikka in 223.

If I understood correctly, it will only be used for target shooting out to 300 yards. Frankly, the 223 is capable of much further, but will be great for 300. The 223 has low recoil and great barrel life. There is also a ton of ammo at many different price points. You can get cheap plinking ammo or high end target ammo in 223.

The 243 is a fantastic cartridge, but the ammo is much more expensive and will not perform any better within 300 yards. And, yes, the barrel life is much much shorter than a 223.

Get a Tikka in 223 and just start shooting.