First bolt gun - modern vs surplus

[Pawlin]

I'd really like to get into long range precision shooting but understand that I shouldn't splurge on an expensive rifle until I first learn the basics. That being said, I really enjoy the character and history behind surplus rifles (as well as great value for price) and am eyeing a WW2 German Mauser K98k for around $550. I'd like to be able to own a piece of history and also use it to get started on long range shooting but mounting a decent scope.

In the longrun, I'd like to get a 308 in remington 700 or savage hs-fcp precision. After checking prices, they are not significantly more than a K98k and 308 is also much cheaper than 8mm.

My dilemma is for my first bolt gun whether I should take my time and first enjoy an old mauser or jump directly to a more expensive modern day remington/savage. I understand that old surplus rifles are less precise compared to modern rifles but am not sure if that would even be an issue given I'm a newbie.

[Jeff213]

A german mauser would be awesome but I would reccomend against mounting a scope. Learn to shoot irons and you will be a better shooter. If you really want a scope, just get a savage. It will be much more precise than the mauser and the ammo will be cheaper.

[larkja]

Suggestion

Okay, this is just me...

I started off with .22 plinking. Picked up a savage bolt action and shot the snot out of it until I had one ragged hole at 50 yards using my 3x9 cheapo Tasco scope. I still have this rifle.

Then graduated up to .223. A little more expensive than .22, but not as expensive as the bigger calibers. I picked up a Howa 1500 Big 5 special. It was around $700 OTD and came with a detachable magazine, bipod, and cheap Nikko Stirling 3.5x10 scope. Also purchased a Mossberg MVP - I liked this because it uses AR magazines, but I liked the action on the Howa better. Used these setups until I could consistently shoot 1 to 1.5MOA at 100 yards with cheap factory ammo. Ended up selling both to fund...

A .308. I ended up selling my .308 since it was too expensive for what I wanted, and I didn't enjoy the recoil.

So, now I'm back to the .223. Sure it's not as long-range as the .308 or even some of the designer calibers, but it allows me to work on the basics, it has minimal recoil, and it doesn't break the bank.

Just my $.02.

[JMP]

long range precision shooting

For this, the single most important thing is the barrel and cartridge selection. 308 is always a good place to start since it is easy, has good barrel life, and a wide range of ammo selection. It's best to just get the cheapest modern action you can find (used is good as well), then buy a new barrel and have it installed. A 60 year old milsurp barrel is not going to shoot as well as a new Bartlein.

I see no issues to spending more for a better rifle if you can afford it. I'd personally recommend just spending the money and getting an Accuracy International AT or a Sako TRG 22 if you can afford it as they have superlative performance right out of the box. Contrary to popular opinion, I believe it's good for a novice to just buy good products from the gate as the rifle will last forever and you get something that has known performance so you know easier if the problem is you or the rifle.

There are three wildcards in the process
1. The rifle/scope
2. The ammo
3. The shooter

If any one of the 3 fail to perform, the results will not be good. If you start out with garbage, after a while, you'll just end up having an extra gun you don't need sitting at the back of your closet that isn't even worth the effort to resell. You will also end up spending a lot more in the long run wasting your money trying to use something that can't work.

If you cannot afford a good rifle, then I'd suggest getting a cheap Remington 700 that'll be easy to upgrade over a longer period of time.

[Divernhunter]

A Ruger American or a Savage and a good scope(read Leupold) and practice. Once you are good out to 300-400 yards then invest in a specific long range rifle. The Savage F-Class rifle out preforms many custom rifles right out of the box.

IF you do not have any rifles start with a 22RF. The next logical step is a 223 which you will enjoy shooting even after you get bigger rifles.

You do not need a Nightforce to start with. A VX1 or VX2 in 3X9X40 or 4X12X40 will work well until you are ready for the high dollar target scopes such as a Leupold MK-IV or Nightforce.

Right you can get a Rem 700 then replace the trigger, replace the stock, replace the firing pin and spring, true the action, replace the barrel and you may have a rifle that shoots as well as a Savage F-Class or other ready made LR target rifle. It will probably cost more than the ready made LR rifle
and you will not have a rifle to shoot with less recoil/expense than you would have with a Savage/Ruger American in 223

The above 2 rifles are also good examples of ready made LR rifles.

[toby]

Large popcorn please.

[Divernhunter]

One for me also.
I always enjoy reading why someone "knows the only answer/rifle" for someone else. Usually someone with no/limited experience themselves in the area of question.

That is why I try to give options and several choices. I will admit that I have no other choices/options for certain things from MY experience. However it is the other persons money and choice. However many a time I have been able to say "I told you so"

But you got to love the ones that have THE ONLY answer.......especially to a broad question

[Calif Hunter]

I would get the best rifle and scope you can now. Then you can practice, practice and practice some more. Then spend more money on a better scope and more ammo. Then you may need to eventually get an after-market trigger and a new barrel.

I like my surplus guns, but do not consider them precision instruments for long range shooting.

[Thanatos2203]

I find that whenever I first buy a type of rifle (first bolty, handgun, shotgun, semi-auto, etc) that always ends up being my tinker/project gun. I mess with the parts, customize it, mod it, and then I end up with something I like which is probably worth a lot less than I paid for it. When it comes to buying my second in that category, I have learned what I like and what I don't and so I purchase something which reflects the knowledge I have acquired and make almost no modifications to it.

With this in mind, a modern sporting rifle with good ammunition is almost always going to outshine a mil surp style rifle. These are two separate guns and separate purchases. I would hunt for a deal on something like a Remington 700 ADL. Not a huge financial investment, accurate, with lots of parts and support. Shoot it bone stock with just some circa $300 glass on it and learn what you like and don't like about bolt guns. If you like it, there is plenty of room for tinkering and professional gunsmithing so that the gun can grow along with you and the cost of a higher end rifle will be spread out as you slowly upgrade the one you have. Or, you can decide you hate it and sell the stock rifle for pretty much what you paid for it, and take your new found knowledge and buy something you do like. This is what happened to me.

If you like the Mauser action, Winchester/FN, CZ, and Montana all make modern rifles with this style of action. They obviously won't have the same historic value of the K98, but it could be something of a compromise depending on your tastes.

[Lucky Scott]

I will share my experience. I love Russian military guns. Enjoy shooting my Mosins and SKS rifles. But I started to get interested in long range precision shooting. So at first I took one of my best Mosins and mounted a scope. Then I tried better ammo. Still enjoyed shooting the rifle, but it was not a very good long range precision rifle.
Bought a old Remington 700 with a hunting scope. Night and day difference. Much better groups on paper, much better for longer range. Much better shooter. Then over time I improved the stock, the trigger, the glass, etc.
I still enjoy shooting my old Russians, but sometimes I like to try the long range stuff and then I use the Remington 700.

[toby]

Shoot other peoples rifles and get a feel of the differences then make a smart decision and try to buy the best you can always, you will love yourself in the end, Seriously just stay away from low cost budget firearms of any description modern or Milsurp.

[RNE228]

Try a few rifles if you can. Not every rifle fits every person. Literally... Size, stock shape etc.

Don't fear the used rack at the LGS; have found a couple nice deals over the years.

[mosinnagantm9130]

A german mauser would be awesome but I would reccomend against mounting a scope. Learn to shoot irons and you will be a better shooter. If you really want a scope, just get a savage. It will be much more precise than the mauser and the ammo will be cheaper.

This^^

Don't bubba a milsurp. Buy a modern rifle for that.

[Sheepdog1968]

You say you want to shoot long range. Go get a Ruger American rifle in 6.5 Creedmore or 308. It will be at or below 1 MOA and is very affordable. If you eventually want to get something that is better, you can. For 95% of us, the Ruger American will be more than adequate for out needs.

[NorCalFocus]

If your budget with glass isn't at least $2,000 skip getting a center fire rifle for now. It sounds like you haven't done much rifle shooting OP. You can learn so much on a .22lr for much less. Here's why...A decent .22lr will run you about $500, add a SWFA 10 power scope for $300, and buy tons of ammo. Finding a 200 yard range is easy, shooting 200 yards with a .22 is like shooting 800 with a .308. You know can learn trigger control, natural point of aim, come ups, and operating a bolt all without recoil teaching you bad habits. Once you can shoot MOA size groups with that rifle, you'll have a good grasp on knowing what you'll want for a center fire rifle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk