Bolt Gun Expert's Advise Needed

[JMP]

OP, at the root of all bolt action rifles, the one single part of the rifle that will dictate its accuracy is the barrel. I see a lot of talk about magazines, and different features, but if it is accuracy you are after, the barrel is what you are after. The only real difference among the aforementioned rifles are the actions and triggers. Pretty much all R700 short actions are the same, just dressed up a bit differently. However, most people when they are learning will not be able to realize the full potential of a great barrel as their ability and ammunition will not realize it. I'd suggest getting whatever you want, and just shoot out the barrel, which is more than 5,000 rounds in a 308 or .223. By that point, you will realize if you are serious and know more about what you would like. Then, you can pick up a better rifle as you'll know what you are looking for an prefer. Once you do this, you'll be more comfortable investing a little more for a more adequate rifle.

For that close range only shooting, absolutely go with .223 as the low recoil won't knock you off your spot when you are watching your hits as it is easy to miss your shot with a 308 as there is significantly more recoil. Then, it sounds like you are shooting factory ammo. You'll save and shoot more as you can just get 55gr bulk ammo for much less than 308. If you find one that is consistent, it will not be that bad at those ranges. You can get much much more shooting in, and that's what it is important. Plus, with the .223, a low dollar rifle will allow you to get away with more. The small bullets and charges tend to need less tuning.

That's why my honest recommendation for 0-150 yard shooting is a 22lr as you will get a much better gun for your money. For what it costs to get centerfire rifle ammunition, you can get very high quality 22lr ammunition. With 22lr, recoil is simply not an issue and it is not a cartridge that is reloaded for if you want to buy factory ammo.

[DArBad]

OP..............

That's why my honest recommendation for 0-150 yard shooting is a 22lr as you will get a much better gun for your money. For what it costs to get centerfire rifle ammunition, you can get very high quality 22lr ammunition. With 22lr, recoil is simply not an issue and it is not a cartridge that is reloaded for if you want to buy factory ammo.

I think THIS is the advise I would take. 22 LR will then be my starting point. Try to learn, zero in on what I like and don't like. Learning and progressing approach.

Big THANKS TO EVERYONE!

[Jarhead]

you have to really read carefully when people post something negative about a particular rifle because often they are posting personal preference, or don't take the time to explain why they think something "sucks". you also have to sort out if the "it sucks" comment actually matters to what you intend to do with your rifle. For example Acme rifle X may SUCK the BIG one for shooting at 2000 yards...if you never intend to shoot at 2000 yards and people shooting at 500 or less love the Acme Rifle X, then you can probably safely ignore that it sucks for shooting out to 2000 yards.

Another example of comments you can ignore would be someone like me making generalized I just can't warm up to the look of Savage rifles...which I can't...so I do not tend discuss them with enthusiasm so a flippant comment by me about savage rifles could be ignored....I will try and not make any unhelpful flippant comments in this post Others may make simplistic they suck type statements. both can safely be ignored because they are basically personal
preference statements that don't give you any real information.

On the other hand information like....

Savage, out of the box accuracy is very good. it isn't a break the bank rifle in terms of cost, and such are things to pay attention to.

On the flip side negatives on the savage that I found credible were... the
savages do not hold up to actual heavy use the way a Remington can. no personal experience with this, but the report of this was presented in a credible way based on observations of what happens in a particular rifle school. wish I could remember more details for you so take it for what it's worth..my recollection of something I read a while ago.

Remington. the individual parts of the rifle are still top quality. assembly has been rough in recent years so some people haven't gotten the full potential of
their rifle out of the box. I have bought 4 R700s, 2 about 6 to 8 years ago, no issues other than crappy stock on the basic sps model. Then 2 just a little over a year ago. based on my personal experience, I would by a R700 tomorrow in a heartbeat.

Going back to the above comments about savages not holding up to truly hard use, the poster said they didn't see r700 breaking in class like they did the savages and were aware of R700 that had round counts on the receiver in excess of 20000+

IF your round count isn't going approach that kind of numbers then this is a type of "concern" you can ignore just like Acme rifles suck at 2000 yards.

Since this is your first and you don't expect to be shooting over 200 yards, buy what you want...Savage, Remington, Ruger... any one of these will be more than sufficient for a first bolt gun. I would even toss out checking into the Weatherby Vanguard line. which is a Howa action to Weatherby specs and qa.

so how to make the choice....

Price, which rifle falls in your budget?
twist rate. which rifle gives you the twist rate that will be most appropriate for your shooting goals
barrel length + twist combo that meets your needs
what after market changes do you think you will make and are they available for the rifle you are leaning towards.
what is the warranty
what is the customer service reputation
what is the reputation of fixing a rifle that slipped by QA that shouldn't have. it happens even to the best of companies.

Most complaints are NOT from knowledgeable people, most just one off they blow out of proportion or just a pet peeve. Most weapons being sold today are really reliable if maintained and fed good ammo.

Most like to blame their shortcomings or lack of training on the weapon.

Price is usually indicative of the long term quality, you get what you pay for. You wil not get the same quality from a Savage that you will from a Custom Built rifle but most shooters do not train enough to out shoot a Savage let alone wear it out.

The problem is not the rifle it's the training.

Also quality of Glass is as important as the Rifle, if not more.

[JMP]

I think THIS is the advise I would take. 22 LR will then be my starting point. Try to learn, zero in on what I like and don't like. Learning and progressing approach.

Big THANKS TO EVERYONE!

For a budget learner's rifle, I'd recommend something like this. Though you've said you don't like CZ, it's probably one of the best bangs for the buck in a learning bolt action rimfire.

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-455-varmint-22-lr-5-rd-mag/

For serious rimfire shooters, they'll generally go Anschutz or custom, which gets rather expensive.

[jrpowell3]

What's the benefit of rimfire over centerfire?

[Scratch705]

What's the benefit of rimfire over centerfire?

cost, and it is a scaled down training tool for longer range.

shooting .22lr to 100 yards translates to shooting bigger calibers at even longer ranges.

the issue of bullet speed, weight, wind correction are present in .22lr in shorter ranges that you would need longer ranges to experience with centerfire.

[JMP]

What's the benefit of rimfire over centerfire?

He's only shoot inside of 150 yards and does not reload ammo and is concerned about recoil. Generally, competitive rimfire is commonly at distances such as 50m, but 150 yards is about as far as you can shoot it accurately. Beyond that, it gets very tough, and after 200 yards, it is done.

For $0.20/round, you get good ammunition. For $0.40/round, you get great ammunition. Compare that to centerfire ammo prices. Then, with a 22lr, you are not likely to wear out a barrel as the charge is so small.

There is no benefit; it is simply different. For the criteria he suggested, rimfire might be a great start.

[RobG]

What's the benefit of rimfire over centerfire?

Fun! Good times can be had with a 22, some match ammo, and 150+ yds. Great learning tool as well as cheaper to shoot.

[Varg Vikernes]

I went with a Tikka in 270win for my first serious bolt gun. Good fit/finish, bolt is super smooth. Aftermarket is not as robust as Remington's but there is a lot of stuff out there for it.

[TMB 1]

I guess a good 22lr or a pellet gun would be good for someone whose never shot to learn on.