Optic for 700 SPS 20"?

[NorCalFocus]

Ok. I'm confused again...Lol

What about the MTAC scopes from Burris?
Also, the FFP vs SFP thing is throwing me off. I understand it has to do with reticle size, but, why & how does that make a difference?

On second focal plane (SFP) scope the MOA or MIL is only accurate at one magnification power. (generally the highest) Meaning if you want to range out how far your impact from the point of aim is you can only do so in the one power setting.

A first focal plane (FFP) the reticle grows bigger and smaller as you turn the power adjustment ring. Keeping the scale of MOA or MILs accurate no matter what power your in.

Myself, I hardly ever shoot in lower setting where I need to use the reticle to measure with. But if you ever get more into tactical style shooting vs just paper punching at the range, you'll find the FFP very useful. If your pretty set on just punching paper and steel at the range and BLM you'll be fine with a SFP. All the scopes posted most are 16 power and lower, I doubt you'll ever shoot less than full magnification with such a scope at the range.

[FMJBT]

I'd take a SWFA or Vortex over any similarly priced Burris any day of the week, including holidays.

Ordinarily I would agree with this. In the past, Burris scopes have never really appealed to me. The newer XTR II line though is vastly different than previous scopes from Burris. Burris and Steiner Optics are both owned by Berretta, and recently a lot of the Steiner designs and technology have found their way into the Burris lineup. The XTR II scopes are essentially the budget version of the Steiner M5Xi series:

http://www.steiner-optics.com/riflescopes/military

[Echidin]

On second focal plane (SFP) scope the MOA or MIL is only accurate at one magnification power. (generally the highest) Meaning if you want to range out how far your impact from the point of aim is you can only do so in the one power setting.

A first focal plane (FFP) the reticle grows bigger and smaller as you turn the power adjustment ring. Keeping the scale of MOA or MILs accurate no matter what power your in.

Myself, I hardly ever shoot in lower setting where I need to use the reticle to measure with. But if you ever get more into tactical style shooting vs just paper punching at the range, you'll find the FFP very useful. If your pretty set on just punching paper and steel at the range and BLM you'll be fine with a SFP. All the scopes posted most are 16 power and lower, I doubt you'll ever shoot less than full magnification with such a scope at the range.

Depending on the magnification range of your scope, you can usually range at more than just one power setting with a SFP optic. I'll use my setup as an example. I'm using mil/mil and I have a magnification range of 5.5-22x available to me. Using the formula for finding distance in yards:

Object size (in.)/Object size (mils) x 27.77 = Distance from target in yards

For example, lets say I have an object with a known size of 19 in. x 30 in. and at its longest measurement (30 in.) it takes up 2.5 mils @ 22x (which you are correct about it generally being the highest magnification setting that is recommended by the manufacturer for ranging). So, we can plug it in to the formula and calculate our distance:

Object size (30 in.)/ Object size in mils (2.5) x 27.77 = 333.24 yards to target.

Now, lets say I'm at 11x and using the same object (19 in. x 30 in) the target now takes up 1.25 mils in my reticle. Lets we'll plug the numbers in again.

Object size (30 in.)/Object size in mils (1.25) x 27.77 = 666.48 yards. Now since we're only half the magnification power (11x) that is recommended for accurate ranging (22x) you then divide by 2 to get the correct distance.
666.48/2 = 333.24 yards to target.

Lastly, we'll try ranging the same object using the lowest power setting @ 5.5x and same object measurements. @ 5.5x the object at its longest measurement takes up 0.625 mils in my reticle. So, again:

Object size (30 in.)/Object size in mils (0.625) x 27.77 = 1332.96 yards. Now, 5.5x is 1/4th of the recommended ranging magnification (22x) so dividing your answer above by 4 gives us 333.24 yards to target.

Having owned and used both FFP and SFP scopes, I can say that FFP is definitely ideal and easiest to use for ranging and calling shots. While using SFP is limited and takes a bit more time compared to FFP, its not imposible to use successfully with practice. Its also important to note that, whether you're using FFP or SFP, ranging accurately can become more difficult to do for smaller targets out past about 700 meters or so.

[deviljon]

To keep it simple:



Notice how the reticle on an FFP scope changes in relation to the magnification? It stays proportional to the picture.

The SFP has a fixed reticle that will not change sizes. You'll need to make calculations when adjusting.

[NorCalFocus]

That's great info on ranging with a SFP scope. Although OP it sounds like he won't be doing much ranging.

[JWHuey]

Ok, I'm looking at...

This-

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Tactical-Reticle-Riflescope-6-24x50mm/dp/B006UKMDFO/ref=pd_sbs_sg_17?ie=UTF8&refRID=1Z92FZXKG8NFMTVBT7XG

& this-

http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-6-24x50-Riflescope-Reticle-Pst-624f1/dp/B003AQUGXC/ref=pd_sbs_sg_9?ie=UTF8&refRID=17GFRSMXPHCPJ1FZ792E

My price point went up a couple hundred (my kids don't need to eat.Lol)

Am I overlooking ANY options in this cost ballpark?

[tacticalcity]

The SWFA is a good scope.

I have my eyes on this one for my next rifle.

Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9x40mm Matte Firedot TMR 113771

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=472658275

[NorCalFocus]

Vortex on the no hassle warranty alone.

[FMJBT]

Ok, I'm looking at...

This-

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Tactical-Reticle-Riflescope-6-24x50mm/dp/B006UKMDFO/ref=pd_sbs_sg_17?ie=UTF8&refRID=1Z92FZXKG8NFMTVBT7XG

& this-

http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-6-24x50-Riflescope-Reticle-Pst-624f1/dp/B003AQUGXC/ref=pd_sbs_sg_9?ie=UTF8&refRID=17GFRSMXPHCPJ1FZ792E

My price point went up a couple hundred (my kids don't need to eat.Lol)

Am I overlooking ANY options in this cost ballpark?

In that price range you could get the 4-20X50 or 5-25X50 versions of the XTR II.

4-20X50 for $933.31:

http://www.thedigitaloasis.com/Burris-201040-Bur-Xtr-Ii-4x-20x-50-Ill-Milld-201040_p_28712.html#.VQDk3OGSDIU

5-25X50 for $1017.80:

http://www.thedigitaloasis.com/Burris-201050-Bur-Xtr-Ii-5x-25x-50-Ill-G2b-201050_p_28713.html#.VQDlCuGSDIU

Both of these scopes will have significantly better turrets and glass than the Bushnell or Viper PST scopes as well as quite a bit more internal adjustment range @ 90 moa for each.

[ar15barrels]

Also, the FFP vs SFP thing is throwing me off. I understand it has to do with reticle size, but, why & how does that make a difference?

On a SFP scope, the reticle size stays the same size in the scope, no matter what magnification.
So, if you turn the scope to max magnification and measure a target with the reticle, the measurement will be different when you adjust the magnification.
Basically, the reticle on a SFP scope is only accurate at ONE magnification setting.

On a FFP scope, the reticle size changes WITH the magnification.
So, if you turn the magnification up to max and measure a target and then turn the power down half way, the target will still measure exactly the same.
The reticle in a FFP scope is usable at ALL magnifications.

Where this matters is if you want to use the measurements on the reticle to hold off to the side for wind or perhaps to determine the range to a target if you know the target's size.
With a SFP scope, you have to use it as a fixed magnification scope and leave it at the setting where the reticle is accurate.
Its normal for this magnification to be the maximum power setting.

With a FFP scope, you can turn the magnification down lower which gives you a wider field-of-view and STILL be able to use the reticle to hold of for wind or to hold over for elevation if you choose not to dial your elevation with the turret.

[brando]

Yup, basically the reason FFP scopes are popular is because no matter what your magnification level, you can easily measure distances with the reticle subtends (eg hashmarks). This is most useful when spotting where the bullet landed and being able to make a correction by measuring the distance with the reticle, then dialing those values on the turrets.

The only downside is some of the older reticles get pretty thick at full magnification.

[b1gdave32]

Ok, I'm looking at...

This-

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Tactical-Reticle-Riflescope-6-24x50mm/dp/B006UKMDFO/ref=pd_sbs_sg_17?ie=UTF8&refRID=1Z92FZXKG8NFMTVBT7XG

& this-

http://www.amazon.com/Vortex-6-24x50-Riflescope-Reticle-Pst-624f1/dp/B003AQUGXC/ref=pd_sbs_sg_9?ie=UTF8&refRID=17GFRSMXPHCPJ1FZ792E

My price point went up a couple hundred (my kids don't need to eat.Lol)



Am I overlooking ANY options in this cost ballpark?

I have that Bushnell ET6245FG on a SPS 20" n I like it. I would love it if it had zero stops. The G2 reticle is sweet! Mounted using Seekins precision 20 MOA base n medium Seekins rings.