Thordsen CAA cheek adapter ATF ruling!

[Shoot'nPlumber]

So just recieved an update regarding the Thordsen CAA cheek rest! This just recently came in today and this time they clearly state that shouldering an ar pistol with a device intended to be other than a stock still classifies the pistol as an SBR!
Here's the link!

http://siterepository.s3.amazonaws.com/2675/atf_response_letter_for_ar_pistol_pack.pdf

If the link doesn't work, it's on Thordsen customs homepage!

[Jeepers]

hmmm imagine that folks think its fun to poke the bear and now look at the crapstorm brewing .. lets see what next in our hobby is someone going to screw up for the rest ?

As you know, shoulder stocks normally attach to the receiver of a shoulder-fired firearm.
However, in the case of an AR- t)?e, it attaches to the receiver extension, commonly
referred to as the buffer tube. A shoulder stock provides a means for the shooter to
support the firearm and easily aim it. With respect to a saddle/cheek piece, the submitted
devices is an accessory attachment desigred to enhance the "cheek weld" ofan ARtype
rifle shoulder stock or AR-type pistol buffer tube by widening the profile of its outer
dimensions. As received, the submitted (3) three items are not "firearms" as defined in
the Gun Control Act of 1968; 18 U.S.C. 921 (a)(3).
Saddle devices designed for "cheek enhancement" generally would not change a pistol's
classification to a "shorl-barreled rifle. " FTISB finds that the submitted saddle devices
are not designed to support the ARtype pistol in the shoulder of the shooter during firing
but, rather, to rest against the shooter's cheek.
FTISB's evaluation of the submitted items consequently finds the attachment of the stock
"saddle" to an AR-t1pe pistol would not change the classification of the pistol to an SBR.
Our Branch fuilher notes that as long as the saddle device as evaluated and installed to an
AR-t1pe pistol, is not designed or redesigned and intended to contact the shoulder and is
not used as a shoulder stock, its possession and use would not be prohibited.
Our Branch also finds that the use ofextension tubes or spacers in the "saddle"
attachment to an ARtlpe pistol could change the classification of the subject "pistol"
If the subject extensions or spacers were installed in a manner to allow an ARtlpe
"pistol" to achieve an overall length greater than 26 inches and not actually concealed on
a person; the subject weapon would not be classified as a "any other weapon". A weapon
of this type would be properly classified as a "firearm" as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921
(aX3).
The receiver extension/buffer tube on an AR-type pistol serves a legitimate, vital function
in the operation of the weapon system; and ifutilized as originally designed is not
considered to be a shoulder stock. Further, a pistol that has an AR-t1pe buffer tube or
similar component assembled to it, which consequently allows for the installation of a
saddle/cheek enhancement accessory, is not classified as a SBR; nor unlawful to possess.
However, if a pistol assembled with an AR-type buffer tube or similar component; which
in tum, redesigns the subject AR-type pistol to be desigred or redesigned and
consequently intended to be fired from the shoulder; an NFA weapon as defined in 26
U.S.C. $ 58a5(a)(3); has been made.

[nick]

So just recieved an update regarding the Thordsen CAA cheek rest! This just recently came in today and this time they clearly state that shouldering an ar pistol with a device intended to be other than a stock still classifies the pistol as an SBR!
Here's the link!

http://siterepository.s3.amazonaws.com/2675/atf_response_letter_for_ar_pistol_pack.pdf

If the link doesn't work, it's on Thordsen customs homepage!

I don't see where it states that.

[bulletblood]

. Further, a pistol that has an AR-t1pe buffer tube or
similar component assembled to it, which consequently allows for the installation of a
saddle/cheek enhancement accessory, is not classified as a SBR; nor unlawful to possess.

So this means that I can put a buffer tube with cheek rest on an AK style pistol, if I don't intend to shoulder it?

[Canadadry]

It seems to be saying that it's not illegal to install in on the gun but if you shoulder it then it's illegal. If that's the case then my AR & AK Pistol are worthless.

Just couldn't leave well enough alone.

[Dump1567]

From Thordsens Website:

NEW ATF OPINION LETTER

Back in October, we sent a letter to BATFE Firearms Technology Industry Services Branch (FTISB) requesting clarification and opinions on several topics related to our newest AR pistol buffer tube/saddle kit designs. We received their response on December 23rd and have spent the last few days going over it. The reply was not in the usual Q and A format, so we’ve decided to release both our letter and their response to make it easier to understand the framing of their answers. See below.

Here are the highlights.
1.Our buffer tube cover/ saddle combinations ARE NOT a “firearm” and DO NOT reclassify an AR pistol to SBR, provided that it is used as designed (a cheek rest) and not shouldered. (page 2 paragraphs 1-2 and page 3 paragraph 1).

2.Use of a longer extension tube or spacers that cause a “pistol” to achieve an overall length greater than 26” could reclassify it as a “firearm” (page 3, paragraph 2).

3.The use of an AR type extension tube, or similar component, which allows for the installation of a saddle/cheek enhancement on a platform other than an AR pistol (example, an AK pistol), IS PERMISSIBLE provided that it is used as designed (a cheek rest) and not shouldered. (page 3, paragraph 3-4).

The language regarding shouldering was not unexpected given that BATFE has recently reversed their position on other AR/AK pistol related accessories. Regardless of BATFEs reversal of opinion, we believe that our pistol builder’s packs are still the best option for safety, control, utility, and aesthetic cheek rest for pistol variants. We will continue to work on the anticipated release of our updated pistol builders packs.

So it sounds like regardless of what's on the end of your pistol, if you INTEND to use it as a stock, you could be creating an SBR.

[Shoot'nPlumber]

So this means that I can put a buffer tube with cheek rest on an AK style pistol, if I don't intend to shoulder it?

Yes

[bulletblood]

Yes

Cool, I'm going to have a folding cheek rest, my dreams have come true.

[Shoot'nPlumber]

Cool, I'm going to have a folding cheek rest, my dreams have come true.

That's what I was going after as well....a folding cheek rest!

[ACfixer]

It seems to be saying that it's not illegal to install in on the gun but if you shoulder it then it's illegal. If that's the case then my AR & AK Pistol are worthless.

Just couldn't leave well enough alone.

Well let's be honest here... If you are willing to admit that you were putting a device on your pistol with the intention of shouldering it like a rifle, then you have indeed constructed a short rifle.

On the other hand, my only intention is to use my arm brace as an arm brace, and to use my cheek rest as a cheek rest. And we don't talk about Fight Club.

[.45 ACP]

You can shoulder this thing? Never knew that.

[Devilmonkey89]

If that's the case then my AR & AK Pistol are worthless.

Jesus way to throw yourself under the bus, i'm building pistols with the sig brace to have more control when shooting one handed.

[neouser]

Are we talking about the shoulder thing that goes up?

[Ubermcoupe]

I can’t wait for the letter for clarification about shouldering the buffer tube. Pretty soon there will be threads about how buffertubes on AR pistols are illegal

[Paperchasin]

BATF should just repeal the NFA and focus on processing tax stamps. You know a law is flawed when its filled with gray areas.