TSA and flying with firearms

[kethnguy]

So today was my first time ever flying with a firearm and beforehand, I have done quite a bit of research for the process that one must undergo to fly with firearms in checked baggage. It was my understanding that SOLELY the owner/flyer holds the key/combination to the locks on the firearms case.



My story is this:

I had two unloaded handguns along with multiple magazines in a Pelican 1490 case securely locked with the locked latches and 2 combination locks then placed in a soft luggage bag and secured to the inside of the soft bag with a steel cable. I also have three 50-round boxes of 9mm/.380 ammo inside a plastic Plano ammo case (also locked).

I arrive at San Jose SJC airport and declare that I would be traveling with a firearm at the Southwest Airlines counter. The give me the form to fill out and then they tape it to my Pelican case and take my entire luggage into the carousel and I am on my way through security. While waiting for my flight, My name and another passenger on the same flight was called to see the Southwest Airline attendant at the front desk. As it turns out, both of our respective luggage bags were "alarmed" during check and they firmly requested that we hand over our keys so that TSA could open our cases and inspect. I firmly state that I must be present during the inspection and I, alone, must retain possession of the keys.

I request to speak to the TSA directly and was able to speak to an agent with the title Explosives Officer or something on his shirt. Turns out he says he was ex-law enforcement and understands our concerns with being present during the inspection but that the TSA rules state we must hand over the keys. Reluctantly, both of us hand over our keys and wait about 20-30 minutes for the agent to return and send us on our ways. To my relief, all my belongings arrived safely.

I went home and checked the TSA website and sure enough, there's a new clause that states:

Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation.

http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/firearms-and-ammunition

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2009-title49-vol9/pdf/CFR-2009-title49-vol9-sec1540-111.pdf

What steps should I take since it seems like TSA is clearly violating Federal law by mandating that travelers hand over their keys?

[Motosurgeon]

Last time I flew I put my ammo in my check in baggage and handed the firearm case alone to the tsa. They never even asked me to open it or anything. But this was maybe 3 years ago.

[dobek]

I would explain that no - their "policy" may be to take the key - but the "law" states that only I can be in control of it. If they would like they can contact the police, but I would have to insist that charges of conspiracy to commit a crime was taking place.

I would then tell them that I am sorry but I refuse to commit a crime - if they would like to inspect the case, bring me to the case or the case to me

Steve

I have flown quite a few times and have never had a problem.

[kethnguy]

I would explain that no - their "policy" may be to take the key - but the "law" states that only I can be in control of it. If they would like they can contact the police, but I would have to insist that charges of conspiracy to commit a crime was taking place.

I would then tell them that I am sorry but I refuse to commit a crime - if they would like to inspect the case, bring me to the case or the case to me

Steve

I have flown quite a few times and have never had a problem.

I should try emphasizing that this weekend on my flight back up if the san diego airport pulls the same nonsense. The reasoning at the SJC airport for why I couldn't be present was that the location was a secure location where no one is allowed except the TSA

[beanz2]

Keep in mind different airports have different inspection habits.

Same exact experience here flying out from SJC. I estimate 7 times out of 10, they've asked for my keys.

After threats of my firearm case being held at the airport, I caved in and insisted a Southwest Air supervisor be present throughout the time TSA was inspecting and the supervisor holds the key. I figured there is less chance of TSA stealing stuff if there is another person unlikely to be an accomplice witnessing.

I wrote about it to Southwest and got many apologies but no solution. Wrote to TSA, of course I got no reply (lowly people like us citizens deserve no reply, you know).

I asked many times as to what make them want to visually inspect the guns. Their answer is always that they can't be sure the guns are unloaded. I keep rifle actions open and hand gun slides locked back, no magazines inserted. Their luggage X ray machines can easily see that.

Now I minimize my chances of TSA needing to grope my guns by keeping ammo completely separate from firearms. Nothing that can look like ammo (snap caps, magazine baseplates, empty casings) are left in the case.

We should have a class action suit against TSA and SJC airport.

[tanks]

My experience at Myrtle Beach, Atlanta, and LAX as follows:

Myrtle Beach: I unlocked the case, TSA officer pulled the ammo case out and verified it was locked, and also checked the rifles to make sure they were unloaded.
LAX: Ammo in a locked box was in my checked luggage and went on its merry way. Rifle case was verified by TSA to make sure it was locked, and then they did a chemical sniff test. No physical inspection of weapons.
Atlanta: Exactly the same procedure as LAX.

I was in possession of my keys at all times. In all three cases TSA officers took the gun cases to the plane, so it would not get scanned and alarmed.

The luggage containing ammo was opened by TSA and inspected at LAX, but not at Atlanta.

@benz2: If TSA follows the procedure, the gun cases should not be X-rayed as inspection is done separately and bypasses X-ray machines.
This was this past fall.

[MrPlink]

This isn't the first time I have heard of this happening. Might be prudential to print out the pertinent law next time.


I just flew back to CA with a firearm (got in the 18th) and the TSA agent didn't even look in my case.
He just ran the bomb sniffing device over it.
I could sworn before they always made be confirm that nothing was loaded.

[edgerly779]

Did they tape the fireams declaration to the case or place inside per standard practice and did you remain near tsa bag check in or did you go to the gate?

[tanks]

Did they tape the fireams declaration to the case or place inside per standard practice and did you remain near tsa bag check in or did you go to the gate?

The declaration went inside the case. I was escorted to the TSA checkpoint and stayed until they finished, and then went to the gate.

[Intimid8tor]

I started flying with firearms a few years ago. Back then, they would look inside the locked case. Haven't had that happen in quite a while. Now everything gets swabbed with the analyzer pads. I fly in and out of Boise and Anchorage most frequently, but have transported to and from SFO, Sioux Falls, Rapid City, Phoenix, Vegas, and a few others.

Of all my trips they only took my keys to my suitcase once and I forget where it was. The line about a secure area is crap. In all my travels, all but one airport screens out in the open where the oversized baggage is dropped.

I would love to see the TSA standardize their process among all airports and be forced to follow the laws. Every time I go to a airport I wonder what it will be like.

[Capybara]

I've flown with firearms many times. Your end result really depends on the airport. Fortunately I have often flown out of Phoenix Sky Harbor after trips to Prescott and Kingman to buy guns. It has never been a problem. Get into the main check in line. Declare you have a firearm you need to check, counter person gives you the form, you fill it out. They call a rep from the airlines, they walk me over to a special TSA screening area, they look at the gun in the case, I lock the case with my own keyed Master padlocks with the declaration inside. I proceed to gate and board plane. Land at Burbank, pickup guns, it is usually all good to go.

I did buy a Tokarev last year that Southwest lost though. They found it two days later and had it couriered to my house. That was nerve wracking to say the least but at least it wasn't stolen.

[keenkeen]

I would explain that no - their "policy" may be to take the key - but the "law" states that only I can be in control of it. If they would like they can contact the police, but I would have to insist that charges of conspiracy to commit a crime was taking place.

I would then tell them that I am sorry but I refuse to commit a crime - if they would like to inspect the case, bring me to the case or the case to me

Steve

I have flown quite a few times and have never had a problem.

Great plan as long as you don't mind not flying that day.

[NiceGuyInSanJose]

This has been talked about many times here, and SJC seems to be the worst culprit. While we KNOW we are right under the law, Southwest explained to me that I was right under the law, but I either followed the local TSA rules or my luggage and I were not going to fly that day.

There are times and places to make a stand, but, IMHO, an airport on a holiday weekend is not one of them.

[riddler408]

I have flown out of SJC numerous times with pistols. Never had an issue. Always taped the declaration to the outside of the locked case, ammo stored inside said case.

Phoenix takes you an area and has a tsa agent open your luggage and swab it for explosives. But they have yet to ask to open my gun case. Las vegas is the same as SJC.

I must be lucking out so far. Traveled at least 7 times with pistols this year. And am flying to AZ again on Jan 4th... Fingers crossed.

[lorax3]

This story sounds familiar.

Please file complaints like I did. Enough complaints and they might stop these shenanigans. Although not really, it will take a lawsuit.