Minors (under 18) making 80% AR pistols?

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Okay, I have not found anything, state or federal, against minors making and owning their own firearms. Am I missing something here? I mean, you can't sell somebody under 18 a handgun. But it is legal for them to own one. But is there some law I am missing somewhere that prevents somebody under the age of 18 from making their own AR pistol out of an 80% receiver that they complete on their own? I am just curious, as I still have enough time for the kids to do their lowers before the New Year deadline on SSE.

-Mb

[WizeWizard]

To own a handgun, don't you need to register that gun?

This thread may be useful on the fed level

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/gun-legislation/10627-handguns-over-18-under-21-a.html

Ahh, forget it, I stay away from grey areas. My guns are good and I'm good with them.
Ownership vs possession. Not a game I'm playing with my kids. Sorry.

[ke6guj]

To own a handgun, don't you need to register that gun?

nope, there is no registration requirement for a homemade firearm, handgun or long gun (except for NFA items)

[gun toting monkeyboy]

You don't need to register firearms you make yourself. At least not yet. And it would not be possible for them to self-register them anyway, as the California for requires a HSC, which is not available to them until they are 18 years old. The new FSC may be available to younger people, but that won't be available until next year. The question is, can they make their 80% pistol lowers now, before the SSE expires?

[jingerale]

Okay, I have not found anything, state or federal, against minors making and owning their own firearms. Am I missing something here? I mean, you can't sell somebody under 18 a handgun. But it is legal for them to own one. But is there some law I am missing somewhere that prevents somebody under the age of 18 from making their own AR pistol out of an 80% receiver that they complete on their own? I am just curious, as I still have enough time for the kids to do their lowers before the New Year deadline on SSE.

-Mb

I may be wrong but I thought it was you can not sell someone under 21 a handgun, at least not through a FFL. Intrafamily transfer you can do after 18.

[.45 ACP]

The question is, can they make their 80% pistol lowers now, before the SSE expires?

Yes, this is the question. Very little time left to decide too.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

I may be wrong but I thought it was you can not sell someone under 21 a handgun, at least not through a FFL. Intrafamily transfer you can do after 18.

Yes, we got that. But that has nothing to actually do with the question. Nobody will be giving or transferring anything. They will be making them themselves. The question is, can they make them as pistols, and legally own them? I have found nothing in any of the laws that says that they can not. But I wanted to make sure I am not overlooking something.

[.45 ACP]

The question is, can they make them as pistols, and legally own them?

This has been covered by at least half a dozen threads in the past month alone, surprised none of them came up by you know... searching or something. The below applies to everyone in CA, regardless of age.

Short answer: By the letter of the law, no, you cannot legally manufacture an AR Pistol with an 80% lower because it qualifies as an unsafe handgun (not on roster or has not gone through roster safe testing).

Read this thread carefully: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=984946

RickD's post is particularly interesting:

Will you get busted out in the open by some over zealous LEO? Who knows? That risk assessment is personal to you and your friend. Sorry if that complicated your situation.

[RickD427]

Yes, we got that. But that has nothing to actually do with the question. Nobody will be giving or transferring anything. They will be making them themselves. The question is, can they make them as pistols, and legally own them? I have found nothing in any of the laws that says that they can not. But I wanted to make sure I am not overlooking something.

I don't know of any statute that would directly prohibit a minor from manufacturing their own firearm. Please note the issues in the above post if the firearm is a handgun.

However, if a minor were to manufacture a pistol, revolver, or firearm capable of being concealed on the person, then they would be in violation of Penal Code section 29610 (Possession of a Handgun by Minor) the moment the object became a firearm, unless one of the specified exemptions applied.

The statute that most frequently gets minors into trouble is section 29650 (Possession of Ammunition by Minor). There are fewer exemptions than for 29610 and the section covers all forms (handgun, rifle and shotgun) of ammunition.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Wow. Just wow. Sarcasm about searching, and a completely wrong answer. You do realize that we have long ago established that it is perfectly legal to make 80% lowers into handguns, right? And that was one of the main reasons they are so popular here in California, right? No offense, but it really helps if you know what you are talking about before you post a sanctimonious answer like that...

-Mb

This has been covered by at least half a dozen threads in the past month alone, surprised none of them came up by you know... searching or something.

Short answer: By the letter of the law, no, you cannot legally manufacture an AR Pistol with an 80% lower because it qualifies as an unsafe handgun (not on roster or has not gone through roster safe testing).

Read this thread carefully: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=984946

RickD's post is particularly interesting:



Will you get busted out in the open by some over zealous LEO? Who knows? That risk assessment is personal to you and your friend.

[.45 ACP]

You do realize that we have long ago established that it is perfectly legal to make 80% lowers into handguns, right?
-Mb

Has it? You willing to bet your entire life savings and freedom on it? Ok.

Not trying to be sanctimonious or anything, hate to see a young kid get into trouble so early in life.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

I don't know of any statute that would directly prohibit a minor from manufacturing their own firearm.

However, if they were to manufacture a pistol, revolver, or firearm capable of being concealed on the person, then they would be in violation of Penal Code section 29610 (Possession of a Handgun by Minor) the moment the object became a firearm, unless one of the specified exemptions applied.

The statute that most frequently gets minors into trouble is section 29650 (Possession of Ammunition by Minor). There are fewer exemptions than for 29610 and the section covers all forms (handgun, rifle and shotgun) of ammunition.

Ah, THAT is what I was looking for. So they can't be in possession of it because of state law. What about if I am in possession of it until they turn 18? Would they still be able to maintain ownership of it, without being in possession? Is ownership actually effected by possession? I know that they can use a pistol under adult supervision. Is it simply a matter of who maintains control of it until they reach 18? My main concern here is the closing of the SSE loophole. I want them to be able to own their own AR pistols someday.

-Mb

[RickD427]

Wow. Just wow. Sarcasm about searching, and a completely wrong answer. You do realize that we have long ago established that it is perfectly legal to make 80% lowers into handguns, right? And that was one of the main reasons they are so popular here in California, right? No offense, but it really helps if you know what you are talking about before you post a sanctimonious answer like that...

-Mb

Uhh, No we never have established that...................

[gun toting monkeyboy]

You know, I am not normally one to bring up the number of postings on a forum. But clearly, you haven't been here very long. Yes, it has been covered and re-covered for several years. There are tens of thousands of 80% AR and AK pistols here in the state. And if it were not legal, do you think the state legislature would have gone through the trouble of passing a law to close the SSE loophole like they did? If nothing else, that was tacit acknowledgement that they were, in deed, legal. Otherwise they would have simply started prosecuting years ago. This isn't a matter of exposing my kids to potential prosecution for making an illegal pistol. The pistol itself is legal. The question here is whether or not they would run into issues with being the owner of an item they are not allowed to take legal possession of for a few more years.

-Mb

Has it? You willing to bet your entire life savings and freedom on it? Ok.

Not trying to be sanctimonious or anything, hate to see a young kid get into trouble so early in life.

[.45 ACP]

You know, I am not normally one to bring up the number of postings on a forum. But clearly, you haven't been here very long. Yes, it has been covered and re-covered for several years.

Then it's very confusing how you came to your very wrong and incorrect conclusion, especially since you have apparently been reading about this for "years".

"Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year."

Also your argument that "many people own illegally constructed weapons" mean it's tacit admission of its legality is a very poor, and ignorant legal argument. I know people who imported bump fire stocks into CA, there are probably thousands in the state. The CA DOJ considers it a trigger activated mechanism that changes a weapon into an automatic weapon. It's illegal, and prosecutable. Yet, people own them. Same with automatically deployed switchblades over 3 inches. Same with high capacity mags where people imported them into the state. Tens of thousands of them. Doesn't make it "tacitly" legal.

But hey, it's guys like you that I love reading about in the papers. Willing to risk their freedom to fight the good fight. You have my support. I'll make a donation to your legal fund later.