Thumb pushing against slide - failure to feed

[jcaoloveshine]

Took an inexperienced shooter out yesterday to shoot, and we experienced 1 FTF (mid magazine in a CMC Powermag) in my Baer TRS. Upon examining his grip, (and the skin mark on the rear cocking serrations), it seems like he was pressing his right thumb up against the slide cocking serrations (he has large hands, was riding safety). Looks like he was applying decent pressure since had a mark on his thumb too.

Running 17lb flatwire spring and an EGW flat FPS. Shooting 230 grain Freedom Munitions hardball.

Once I corrected him, no more issues. Is this a user error that is known to cause feeding issues with handguns? Anyone experienced this before?

[9mmepiphany]

It isn't uncommon. That thumb belongs on the frame. Many folks use the front of the slide stop, where pivots, as an index to remind them to keep their that thumb lower

[David-K]

^^^ This! And I'm one of them.

[diveRN]

If he's got big paws, the thumb on his grip hand may ride under the safety when using a thumbs forward grip, which can actually cause the safety to engage when the gun is fired.

I have big hands, too. When I first started shooting the 1911, two instructors coached me to shoot with a thumbs up grip vs more forward and keeps my thumb clear of the safety. Works for me.

http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/maximizing-the-combat-grip/

[ruchik]

I think everyone missed what the OP was talking about.

The inside of his right thumb, which was riding on top of the safety (as a proper 1911 grip should), was rubbing against the slide serrations. Not his support hand thumb.

Not sure if it's a known error with a 1911 specifically, but such interference of a thumb is a well-documented cause of some malfunctions, regardless of platform.

[matts2k]

that's why some people use "thumbshield" safeties in their 1911s/2011s. a light squeeze can tear up your thumb, but a really solid grip can cause malfunctions (FTE, etc)

[Fizz]

Can easily cause malfunctions.

I did it with a friends Phoenix HP22 on purpose during a range session. I was actually able to stop it from extracting a fired round.

In fact, I just tried it with my EMP and a snap cap. Put my trigger hand thumb on top of the safety and pressed the side into the slide with the slide locked. Pressed the slide release with my support and it wouldn't enter battery fully first attempt. Second attempt was a bit harder with my thumb; I pinched the round between the slide and the feed ramp.

Pretty much the same result pulling it to the rear and letting go with my thumb dragging on the slide. A fired round would be very similar.

I have a callus on that part of my thumb due to motorcycle riding so it chewed/shaved some dead skin. I could see not noticing it being a new shooter focused on the thing going boom between your eyes.

[mjmagee67]

Thumbs DO NOT push on the frame/slide, they may lightly touch but don't push. I lightly put my left thumb on the side of the frame. below the slide and my right thumb on my left hand just touching the safety. I've seem people run their thumbs up too high and ride the slide, that causes all sorts of issues, especially if you are pushing.

[himurax13]

Once I corrected him, no more issues. Is this a user error that is known to cause feeding issues with handguns? Anyone experienced this before?

Yes. If the thumb, or any other part of the hand is coming in contact with the slide, it could keep it from cycling properly due to the extra resistance. The other problem with that is that parts of your hands could get sliced or rubbed raw.

I have small girly hands so this is not an issue for me.

[Inkman]

Yes. Support thumb riding the slide can cause a ftf or to not go completely into battery.

It has happened to me on real fast draws on close targets when i've had a crap grip on the draw.