AR pistol questions

[joe blow]

Hi,

I was considering trying my hand at building one of these, but am still a bit shady on what is legal. So far I understand it MUST be built on an 80% lower or a stripped lower marked pistol. Aside from that I am not sure of anything else....for example:

Can I install a foreward hand placement device like a magpul angled foreward grip?

Can I install a foregrip?

If someone has a link and can share it, I would appreciate it

Thanks

[SkyHawk]

It doesn't matter if the stripped lower is marked pistol, if it is not on DOJ books as a pistol. So don't go by markings alone on a completed lower. It does not have to be marked pistol, and if it is marked pistol it doesn't necessarily mean anything. It is very unlikely you will find a stripped lower that is on the books as a pistol in CA; not impossible, but not very likely.

Buying one complete or making your own with 80% lower is the way to go, and my opinion is it would be safer to do either of those before the end of the year when SSE laws change, or wait for an AR PISTOL SSE 2.0 method to be determined.

You can have an angled foregrip, but not a vertical foregrip. Be advised that some people are getting hassled for even running the angled foregrip so you might want to wait for those cases to resolve before installing one.

Try this link for more Calguns threads on the topic

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Acalguns.net+ar+pistol

[biglou]

there is tons of info on this subject

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=505357

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Yeah, there isn't really a "gray area" on these anymore. Everybody has them. Follow the assault weapons flow chart up at the top of the page. Other than that, don't do anything stupid and have fun.

-Mb

[joe blow]

Awesome. Thank you guys!
I have a few 80%'s I'd like to consider.

I read the breakdown list link above and it seems if you use an 80%, make the barrel less than 16" and don't add a grip up front, it is legal.....But it sounds like the ar pistol cannot be fired with one hand on the pistol grip and one on the barrel or shouldn't since some are getting hassled for even having an angled forward grip? Am I understanding this correctly?

On a side note, where have most people gone to purchase uppers/upper parts for these. Is there a favorite/reputable company you guys can recommend?

thanks again for the help

[Rock6.3]

Awesome. Thank you guys!
I have a few 80%'s I'd like to consider.

I read the breakdown list link above and it seems if you use an 80%, make the barrel less than 16" and don't add a grip up front, it is legal.....But it sounds like the ar pistol cannot be fired with one hand on the pistol grip and one on the barrel or shouldn't since some are getting hassled for even having an angled forward grip? Am I understanding this correctly?

On a side note, where have most people gone to purchase uppers/upper parts for these. Is there a favorite/reputable company you guys can recommend?

thanks again for the help

Please don't make up crazy stupid rules, that job is more than adequately being done by our State Legislature, and they don't need any help.

[Quiet]

I read the breakdown list link above and it seems if you use an 80%, make the barrel less than 16" and don't add a grip up front, it is legal.....But it sounds like the ar pistol cannot be fired with one hand on the pistol grip and one on the barrel or shouldn't since some are getting hassled for even having an angled forward grip? Am I understanding this correctly?

It's kinda complicated and requires compliance with Federal & CA laws.

Under Federal laws...
Firearm + less than 16" rifled barrel + less than 26" overall length + no shoulder stock = Title 1 Handgun
Firearm + less than 16" barrel + greater than 26" overall length + no shoulder stock = Title 1 Other

A Title 1 Handgun can legally have an angled forward grip and/or a horizontal forward grip attached to it.
A Title 1 Handgun can not legally have a vertical forward grip attached to it.
A Title 1 Other can legally have an angled forward grip, horizontal forward grip, and/or vertical forward grip attached to it.

Depending on the barrel length and overall length of the firearm you are making, determines if it is considered a Title 1 Handgun or a Title 1 Other.

Under CA laws...
A firearm with a less than 16" barrel length is considered a "handgun".

A semi-auto pistol that uses detachable magazines...
... and has a threaded barrel is illegal.
... and has a second handgrip is illegal.
... and has a barrel shroud is illegal.
... and accepts magazines outside the pistol grip is illegal.

Therefore, in order to be CA legal, a semi-auto AR style pistol must always operate using a fixed 10 or less round magazine.

Since CA legal AR pistols have a fixed magazine, they can legally have any or all the features prohibited on a semi-auto pistol that uses detachable magazines.

Which means...
If your AR pistol is considered a Title 1 Handgun; then it can not have a vertical forward grip attached to it, but it can have an angled forward grip and/or a horizontal forward grip attached to it.

If your AR pistol is considered a Title 1 Other; then it can have an angled forward grip, horizontal forward grip, and/or vertical forward grip attached to it.

But...
If all this confuses you, then do not attach any type of angled forward grip or vertical forward grip to your handgun.

[ke6guj]

"horizontal forward grip" meaning the gripping surface that runs parallel to the bore like the traditional handguards on an AR. I don't believe ATF would allow you to run a VFG mounted horizontally perpendicular to the barrel like a Sten mag. Just want people to be aware that there may be a legal difference between the two examples.

[edgerly779]

correct for det. mag pistols.

[joe blow]

Please don't make up crazy stupid rules, that job is more than adequately being done by our State Legislature, and they don't need any help.

I am not making stupid rules up as you say. I am looking for clarification. Relax or don't reply to my thread if you're going to start calling me out for asking someone to clarify a topic



Thanks to others for taking the time to help

[joe blow]

Thank you for clarifying this!

It's kinda complicated and requires compliance with Federal & CA laws.

Under Federal laws...
Firearm + less than 16" rifled barrel + less than 26" overall length + no shoulder stock = Title 1 Handgun
Firearm + less than 16" barrel + greater than 26" overall length + no shoulder stock = Title 1 Other

A Title 1 Handgun can legally have an angled forward grip and/or a horizontal forward grip attached to it.
A Title 1 Handgun can not legally have a vertical forward grip attached to it.
A Title 1 Other can legally have an angled forward grip, horizontal forward grip, and/or vertical forward grip attached to it.

Depending on the barrel length and overall length of the firearm you are making, determines if it is considered a Title 1 Handgun or a Title 1 Other.

Under CA laws...
A firearm with a less than 16" barrel length is considered a "handgun".

A semi-auto pistol that uses detachable magazines...
... and has a threaded barrel is illegal.
... and has a second handgrip is illegal.
... and has a barrel shroud is illegal.
... and accepts magazines outside the pistol grip is illegal.

Therefore, in order to be CA legal, a semi-auto AR style pistol must always operate using a fixed 10 or less round magazine.

Since CA legal AR pistols have a fixed magazine, they can legally have any or all the features prohibited on a semi-auto pistol that uses detachable magazines.

Which means...
If your AR pistol is considered a Title 1 Handgun; then it can not have a vertical forward grip attached to it, but it can have an angled forward grip and/or a horizontal forward grip attached to it.

If your AR pistol is considered a Title 1 Other; then it can have an angled forward grip, horizontal forward grip, and/or vertical forward grip attached to it.

But...
If all this confuses you, then do not attach any type of angled forward grip or vertical forward grip to your handgun.

[Sunday]

AR 15 pistols suck build a rifle.

[joe blow]

AR 15 pistols suck build a rifle.

I kinda see what you're saying, but I came across the SIG arm brace/wannabe rear stock and according to the ATF literature I read, it can be fired using it as a rear stock. I watched a few videos and it really resembles a SBR configuration. Just throwing that out there.

I would go no less than 10-12" barrel. Shorter is not looking like a good idea from what I have read.

[Quiet]

I kinda see what you're saying, but I came across the SIG arm brace/wannabe rear stock and according to the ATF literature I read, it can be fired using it as a rear stock. I watched a few videos and it really resembles a SBR configuration. Just throwing that out there.

Be advised that BATFE letters have no sway over CA laws and under CA laws, use of an arm brace on a handgun can be considered to be a SBR.

So, be aware of the possible legal dangers of obtaining and using an arm brace in CA.

[joe blow]

Understood. Funny you mentioned that since I was finding conflicting info such as you provided that detailed this same thing.

Thank you

Be advised that BATFE letters have no sway over CA laws and under CA laws, use of an arm brace on a handgun can be considered to be a SBR.

So, be aware of the possible legal dangers of obtaining and using an arm brace in CA.