Repeated Fail to Load...

[essjay]

So, my 92FS jammed on loading a fresh magazine for the third time tonight. Previously, it had happened using full mags of LAX Ammo 115-grain FMJ reloads, and tonight was with a half-full mag of Hornady 124-grain XTP JHP (which, honestly, is why I'm concerned now). The issue first cropped up around 2000 rounds, then around 2300, and today, around 2450. Aside from 15 rounds of Hornady I shot tonight, everything else has been 115-grain FMJ. I'm not certain if it's the same mag doing it everytime, but I've mad a mental note to mark it with a Sharpie next time around. I field strip, clean and lubricate the handgun pretty thoroughly with CLP, including the magwell, and wipe down the exterior of the magazines with CLP after most every range session. The mags aren't really being slammed in hard, and I'm loading the rounds via UpLula, for what it's worth.

Anyway, to the issue itself: What's happening is that, on insertion of the magazine, the top round in the magazine is tilted downwards, jamming the casing into the narrow top portion of the magazine, wedging the not-fully-seated magazine into the magwell, and partially (about 10%) closing the slide.

To clear the jam, I safe the handgun (if not on already), pull the slide back and lock it, and press down hard on the casing, which pushes it back into its normal position and drops the magazine. Obviously, the handgun is pointed safely downrange the whole time.

Each of the three jammed rounds fed and fired without issue on a repeat try.

Any ideas on what's causing this, and how to prevent it in the future?

[naszero]

Either the magazine springs need replacing or the magazine springs were installed incorrectly.

[ifilef]

You might want to consider not cleaning the magazines at all, or maybe once every year or two. I've had numerous firearms where I haven't 'messed' with them for years. Seems to work.

Naszero post is a starting point because jams and feeding problems especially are magazine related. I believe the springs should be oriented a certain way closest to the follower and bottom spring plate as well. Or maybe your springs have weakened.

I can not address your immediate problem, especially without pics. If you don't have problems with your other magazine(s), that would certainly help you pinpoint the problem to one magazine alone.

[P5Ret]

Either the magazine springs need replacing or the magazine springs were installed incorrectly.

That would be my bet also.

[essjay]

Either the magazine springs need replacing or the magazine springs were installed incorrectly.

Well, I don't think that they were installed incorrectly, since it took over 2000 rounds split between three mags for the issue to crop up. Sounds like I'll be ordering some replacement springs, and just install them the next time this issue crops up.

You might want to consider not cleaning the magazines at all, or maybe once every year or two. I've had numerous firearms where I haven't 'messed' with them for years. Seems to work.

I'm going to rephrase that bit regarding cleaning and edit it into the original post, because the original phrasing implies something that's incorrect. What I meant was this: "I field strip, clean and lubricate the handgun pretty thoroughly with CLP, including the magwell, and wipe down the exterior of the magazines with CLP after most every range session."

I can not address your immediate problem, especially without pics.

I tried to replicate the problem using Snap-Caps a few minutes ago, and couldn't get it to happen, no matter what I tried. I'm thinking that it might be that they're too light. I'd do it with some FMJ, but... purposely trying to induce a FTL with live ammunition isn't ever going to make its way onto my to-do list.

[bwhited]

The way you describe what is going on points to a magazine issue.
First thing is to determine if it is just one magazine or more then one magazine.
Since the magazine(s) worked when new it is most likely the magazine springs or a damaged magazine body.
Check the magazines to see if there is any external damage to the magazines.

[Justintoxicated]

I had issues like that when I left my reloads a bit too long. So it does sound to be magazine, or round related. Maybe something is binding up in your magazine. Do you have the issues if you don't use the UpLula?

[ifilef]

Well, I don't think that they were installed incorrectly, since it took over 2000 rounds split between three mags for the issue to crop up. Sounds like I'll be ordering some replacement springs, and just install them the next time this issue crops up.



I'm going to rephrase that bit regarding cleaning and edit it into the original post, because the original phrasing implies something that's incorrect. What I meant was this: "I field strip, clean and lubricate the handgun pretty thoroughly with CLP, including the magwell, and wipe down the exterior of the magazines with CLP after most every range session."



I tried to replicate the problem using Snap-Caps a few minutes ago, and couldn't get it to happen, no matter what I tried. I'm thinking that it might be that they're too light. I'd do it with some FMJ, but... purposely trying to induce a FTL with live ammunition isn't ever going to make its way onto my to-do list.

Purely for academic reasons, if firearm is pointed in a safe direction, and you keep your finger away from the trigger, and the safety is squarely 'ON", how could there be a problem? I am not suggesting that you do it, I just want to understand what could happen assuming your safety works, and the firing pin block operates properly as well.

Do you not have confidence in the safety of this firearm? As a 'test' at home with snap caps, and at the range with live round, I field stripped purposefully with round seated in chamber, safety ON. Firearm is all but 'foolproof'. It can safely be done with the safety OFF as well so long as trigger is not pulled (recommend snap cap only).

It's kind of cool that slide comes off just as easily, and with round in chamber. (You can't remove barrel from the slide until the cartridge which is held by the extractor is removed). This is a helpful exercise to try a couple of times and only reconfirms my SOP to always chamber a first round, clear weapon, and field strip, with the safety ON. It all but removes the detriment involved in dropping the magazine but forgetting to clear the chamber, or doing the reverse- clearing the chamber and then dropping the magazine. If a backup exists to the four basic safety rules, why not use it? Then when one inevitably breaks a rule the backup remains.

[essjay]

Do you have the issues if you don't use the UpLula?

No, but I load at least 95% of the time with the UpLula, so it doesn't really make for a valid comparison.

Purely for academic reasons...

I know that the risk is extremely low, but it's the point of the thing. I'm not going to play around with a firearm and live ammunition at home, in an attempt to get something that very rarely occurs to happen.

[timbo399]

I have a somewhat similar issue with my Beretta 92fs. Since I have owned it, I would say every 4th round I shoot, and often times when I rack the first one in the chamber, the nose of the bullet gets wedged into bottom of feedramp while 50% of the cartridge is still seated in the magazine.

Only handgun I've ever owned that has given me problems. And this was when it was brand new and then taken to range 4-5 times. I bought a bunch of different Meg Car mags and does exact same thing with all ammo as well- both FMJ and JHP. Really annoying as I always read on forums how reliable people's Berettas are. So I know for sure not a mag or ammo issue. The thing is , when it shoots, it is actually my most accurate 9 I have, I have "higher end" 9's but I just shoot the Beretta 92 the best by far.

So I call Customer service and guy tells me, "oh that's an issue I hear all the time and it's a simple fix- you just have to make sure the locking block is well oiled". I was a bit surprised cause I explained to him I certainly know how to oil a gun and not one of my other semis has ever given me even one issue, and that includes a bunch of 1911's. I expected him to tell me to send it in but he wasn't having it.

Got home and tried that and did not solve the issue. Since then I bought another Beretta 92 in Inox cause I love the stainless look and still have confidence in Beretta and the Inox runs flawlessly with the same mags used in my other "lemon" Beretta.

Haven't had time to call Beretta back yet but would think they would make this right since I have given them a lot of business when you include a couple higher end O/U Skeet shotguns have bought from them. My Inox runs flawlessly and first Beretta I got a year ago has same issue.

I will even take it to back yard and point it into dirt mound and insert full mag in each Beretta and just hand cycle through the magazine to check for feeding issues and sure enough Inox runs through whole magazine and other one jams about eery third round. And takes 30 seconds to clear the jam cause can't take mag out and the nose of bullet is really rammed hard into bottom of feedramp, have to really pry it out. Would think Beretta CS would be better but maybe I just got the wrong guy, will try them again.

[ifilef]

I have a somewhat similar issue with my Beretta 92fs. Since I have owned it, I would say every 4th round I shoot, and often times when I rack the first one in the chamber, the nose of the bullet gets wedged into bottom of feedramp while 50% of the cartridge is still seated in the magazine.

Only handgun I've ever owned that has given me problems. And this was when it was brand new and then taken to range 4-5 times. I bought a bunch of different Meg Car mags and does exact same thing with all ammo as well- both FMJ and JHP. Really annoying as I always read on forums how reliable people's Berettas are. So I know for sure not a mag or ammo issue. The thing is , when it shoots, it is actually my most accurate 9 I have, I have "higher end" 9's but I just shoot the Beretta 92 the best by far.

So I call Customer service and guy tells me, "oh that's an issue I hear all the time and it's a simple fix- you just have to make sure the locking block is well oiled". I was a bit surprised cause I explained to him I certainly know how to oil a gun and not one of my other semis has ever given me even one issue, and that includes a bunch of 1911's. I expected him to tell me to send it in but he wasn't having it.

Got home and tried that and did not solve the issue. Since then I bought another Beretta 92 in Inox cause I love the stainless look and still have confidence in Beretta and the Inox runs flawlessly with the same mags used in my other "lemon" Beretta.

Haven't had time to call Beretta back yet but would think they would make this right since I have given them a lot of business when you include a couple higher end O/U Skeet shotguns have bought from them. My Inox runs flawlessly and first Beretta I got a year ago has same issue.

I will even take it to back yard and point it into dirt mound and insert full mag in each Beretta and just hand cycle through the magazine to check for feeding issues and sure enough Inox runs through whole magazine and other one jams about eery third round. And takes 30 seconds to clear the jam cause can't take mag out and the nose of bullet is really rammed hard into bottom of feedramp, have to really pry it out. Would think Beretta CS would be better but maybe I just got the wrong guy, will try them again.

After first conducting a reasonable search in the Beretta Forum, you might want to post this as a new thread in the Beretta-Smithing & Maintenance sub-forum.

http://berettaforum.net/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=17

[essjay]

I have a somewhat similar issue with my Beretta 92fs. [snip]

Thankfully mine isn't even remotely that bad. That would drive me crazy! Anyway, the locking block is clean and lubed-up, so I doubt that that's it.

After first conducting a reasonable search in the Beretta Forum, you might want to post this as a new thread in the Beretta-Smithing & Maintenance sub-forum.

Found a couple threads (A, B) in which people had similar issues, and it sounds like a new recoil spring should fix it. I'll give that a try, and, if it crops up again, I'll mark the magazine and verify that it's only happening on that one.

edit: Actually, in the second thread, he replaced the recoil spring and the magazine springs, so... yeah. I'll get it sorted it.

[ironhorse1]

"The issue first cropped up around 2000 rounds, then around 2300, and today, around 2450."

So you're saying that the gun ran fine until you fired a couple of thousand rounds.

At that point did you disassemble, clean and lube the magazines?

Honestly I could hardly even load the magazines in mine, when it was new, until I cleaned and lubed the insides.

I have far more than 2000 rounds down range and it still works great.

Clean them and replace the springs if they continue to FTF.

irh

[Malaprop14]

Do your followers look normal or worn on top? A lot of movement or do they feel pretty solid when empty? I'd tend to agree with others and try replacing at least one of the mag springs and see if it helps.

I've been told by a few different companies that you should never use wet lube on or in magazines. Not sure if that would have anything to do with your issue, kind of doubt it, but figured I'd mention that. CLP tended to gunk up too quick for my tastes so I stopped using it.

[essjay]

After reading the above two posts, I disassembled the mags I used yesterday, and, for a pair of mags that only get used at indoor ranges, there was a surprising amount of yellow beach sand in there, in addition to the gunk that Malaprop14 mentioned. Ended up cleaning all my mags and mag parts with a dry cleaning patches, and left them dry. Hopefully that'll clear the issue up, since the springs still seem strong and the wear on the followers is pretty minor.