460 Rowland

[floogy]

So I've been looking at 10mm pistols for a while now. Kimber, Rock Island Tactical and the G20. I have heard of the 460 Rowland, but didn't know much about it. Until this evening. A drop in conversion for a 1911 is $300 and ammo is priced as low as 70-80 cents a round. Not too bad for a semi auto with 44 mag ballistics. The defensive ammo is as much as you'd expect to pay for a box of quality 45 ACP JHP.

I was assuming that it would be cost prohibitive or requiring a totally custom gun. Wrong. For a round which won't be fired in huge volumes (at least until I can reload), it is pretty affordable compared to buying a new 10mm or other high powered pistol. Plus the conversion can be swapped to any modern 1911.

I didn't see too much about it here, other than some older posts suggesting it in place of a 10mm. For having conversions for Glock, XD and 1911 it sure seems like a solid choice for hunting or seriously powerful defensive use. It is in a class by itself it seems.

With the end of SSE coming, I don't have to worry about getting a new pistol for this round before the end of the year. Maybe another 9mm....

[Bill Steele]

There are a few downsides to the Rowland kits.

Any 460 Rowland kit includes a comp. Comps present unique challenges where the law demands a permanent install.

Even with the comp slowing things down, wear and tear is going to be significantly higher. Basically, install the Rowland kit on guns you don't mind wearing out, not that family heirloom.

[Port Authority]

A good .45Super/SMC load will match most 10mm's.

Like a 45ACP +P++, it's about 'all you can eat' w/o a muzzle brake.

acp = 21k, acp +p = 23k, acp +p+ = 25k, Super = 28k psi.

I shoot my Glock 36 w/ Supers and a 25lb spring and a 5 inch Bar-Sto and it's still a little too exciting.

I'm looking forward to soon loading my own to +P+ (tactical) levels.

This was the highly rated power loading from the now defunct Texas company (I don't recall the name) that supported this cartridge early on.

Port

[Carcassonne]

There are a few downsides to the Rowland kits.

Any 460 Rowland kit includes a comp. Comps present unique challenges where the law demands a permanent install.

Even with the comp slowing things down, wear and tear is going to be significantly higher. Basically, install the Rowland kit on guns you don't mind wearing out, not that family heirloom.

+1

If it wasn't for that stupid threaded barrel law, I would have a 460 Rowland.



.

[floogy]

+1

If it wasn't for that stupid threaded barrel law, I would have a 460 Rowland.



.

Clark will pin and weld for $25 when you order though. Seems like a worthwhile investment for staying legal. You know, so you don't have an evil assault pistol. Rowland has CA legal Glock kits with the barrel ported, rather than threaded. Lone Wolf has their non-ported 6" 460 barrel as well. Which would put the that conversion for a Glock 21 at about $200 for the barrel and new springs.

I wouldn't be shooting thousands of rounds out of it. Just drop the 45 ACP barrel and spring back in and shoot away.

I can't see myself shooting many thousands of rounds out of either a 10mm or 460 Rowland. But the easy and relatively inexpensive conversion seems like a good option for the occasional hunt or woods gun. The hunting/defense ammo will cost about the same for a 460 as it would for a 10mm (or any premium ammo), why not step up in power too?

I did also think about the 45 super. Which for a fully supported chamber would be fine. But most 1911s still have the traditional chamber for 45 ACP. So the 460 conversion being fully supported solves that problem.

[hermosabeach]

The .460 has a great niche...

I think that it is great or better for those that have old standard cap magazines in Glock in free states with standard capacity mags....

The 1911 with 7+1 or 8+1, is just a bit more than a 44 mag that can shoot heavier loads all decade long...


With that said, I think the Conversion kit for a glock or XD would be a great addition to any collection....





Has anyone measured the Db/ SPL for the rowland with a brake outdoors???

I have shot enough hand gun rounds outdoors without hearing protection...


Will the .460 with a comp cause permanent hearing damages if you need to shoot a critter outdoors while hunting or hiking???

[TKM]

Clark pinned and welded mine, no problem. Then I went nuts and had them cut my 625 cylinder for 460 Rowland as well.

Like 10mm, it is a reloaders round. Uses the same dies as 45acp too.

Skipping the hearing protection is not really an option.

[floogy]

Interesting question. I'd imagine that at 43,000 PSI, it has a bit of noise with it. I do plan on getting some good Peltors with the amplification. Those would be great for hunting and "operating".

I was shooting my Glock 23 without hearing protection outdoors a bit ago. My hearing isn't any more damaged than it already is from a jet engine running at 110% I'd imagine this is much, much louder than a .40 though. I guess if you're carrying it for defense, the hearing damage is just accepted because it's an emergency.

[Bill Steele]

Clark will pin and weld for $25 when you order though. Seems like a worthwhile investment for staying legal. You know, so you don't have an evil assault pistol. Rowland has CA legal Glock kits with the barrel ported, rather than threaded. Lone Wolf has their non-ported 6" 460 barrel as well. Which would put the that conversion for a Glock 21 at about $200 for the barrel and new springs.

I wouldn't be shooting thousands of rounds out of it. Just drop the 45 ACP barrel and spring back in and shoot away.

I can't see myself shooting many thousands of rounds out of either a 10mm or 460 Rowland. But the easy and relatively inexpensive conversion seems like a good option for the occasional hunt or woods gun. The hunting/defense ammo will cost about the same for a 460 as it would for a 10mm (or any premium ammo), why not step up in power too?

I did also think about the 45 super. Which for a fully supported chamber would be fine. But most 1911s still have the traditional chamber for 45 ACP. So the 460 conversion being fully supported solves that problem.

The problem with the ported barrel versus the screw on comp is it won't slow things down as much (although the 6" barrel will help some). It is also a weight thing, not just the direction of exhaust gas. The less "slowing down" that goes on, the more wear and tear and the less feed reliability, etc. Rowland is a VERY hot round for a semi. It is a real challenge harnessing all that energy.

Not sure I understand why a Rowland can be shot through a 1911, but a Super can't. The Rowland is running much higher chamber pressures. The chamber support will be the same. If you are using proper brass, both work fine in a 1911 (from a case head support standpoint). Both will also do a job on a 1911 from a wear standpoint, I am sorry I even know this last part..

[Leadingall]

I shoot 45 super from underwood with a 24# spring and a LW 45 barrel for headspace clearance, I love the stuff....460 Rowland is something I've been wanting to play with

correct me if I'm mistaken, but can 460 Rowland be reloaded with 45 acp dies?

[Bill Steele]

I shoot 45 super from underwood with a 24# spring and a LW 45 barrel for headspace clearance, I love the stuff....460 Rowland is something I've been wanting to play with

correct me if I'm mistaken, but can 460 Rowland be reloaded with 45 acp dies?

Depends on the dies. The Rowland case is slightly longer (+.060" to assure it won't chamber in 45 Auto guns). The die has to be cut deep enough so the case won't bottom up inside. Even that won't be a big deal if the decap pin can be extended enough to pop the primer. The case really doesn't need to be sized all the way down, at least if you are shooting from the same gun.

[Bad Caselaw]

So I've been looking at 10mm pistols for a while now. Kimber, Rock Island Tactical and the G20...

Hard to beat a G20/6" OEM barrel/Underwood 10mm Auto 180 Grain XTP or Gold Dot ammo.


Or, a G21/6" OEM barrel/Underwood 45 Super 230 Grain XTP or Gold Dot ammo.


Past that? There is the 40 Super/Underwood 200 Grain XTP with a LWD conversion barrel for either frame +/- magazines.




Caselaw

[floogy]

The problem with the ported barrel versus the screw on comp is it won't slow things down as much (although the 6" barrel will help some). It is also a weight thing, not just the direction of exhaust gas. The less "slowing down" that goes on, the more wear and tear and the less feed reliability, etc. Rowland is a VERY hot round for a semi. It is a real challenge harnessing all that energy.

Not sure I understand why a Rowland can be shot through a 1911, but a Super can't. The Rowland is running much higher chamber pressures. The chamber support will be the same. If you are using proper brass, both work fine in a 1911 (from a case head support standpoint). Both will also do a job on a 1911 from a wear standpoint, I am sorry I even know this last part..

So even a modern forged frame 1911 will wear pretty fast? I get that any of these pistol wildcats will wear a gun out faster, but how many rounds are we talking?

I looked up this article on 45 Super, very informative and even shows the case thickness differences. http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm

Not a bad option, nowhere near a 460 Rowland, but more economical. Just a new 28# recoil spring. Maybe porting or a comp would keep the 45 super down a bit and keep it from battering the gun.

[.308ghillie]

I have looked into both .460 rowland and 10mm conversion for the Glock21. 10mm offers more punch than the .45 and would make a great carry gun while backpacking or edc. The reason I went with 10mm was because load data and reloading supplies are easier to get in 10mm I have found. Drop in kits for 10mm are around $180 including a G20 mag for a Glock21. .460 Rowland just seems too odd and too much work to me. Brass is hard to find as well.

[Bill Steele]

So even a modern forged frame 1911 will wear pretty fast? I get that any of these pistol wildcats will wear a gun out faster, but how many rounds are we talking?

I looked up this article on 45 Super, very informative and even shows the case thickness differences. http://www.realguns.com/archives/020.htm

Not a bad option, nowhere near a 460 Rowland, but more economical. Just a new 28# recoil spring. Maybe porting or a comp would keep the 45 super down a bit and keep it from battering the gun.

Unfortunately yes, even a forged steel frame. Definitely never try an AL based gun for Super or Rowland, it won't last at all. My .45 Super's took a little longer to loosen up one of my all steel 1911's, but still less than a thousand rounds and the gun resembles a 1911 that has gone through the Marines pacific island campaigns, unfortunately a real rattle can . I am not talking cracks, but definitely the "tightness" of the gun goes away pretty quickly.

I am not saying definitely don't do it, just don't do it with a gun that has any sentimental or monetary value. I think getting a RIA, etc. and running Rowland or .45 Super could make a really effective woods carry gun. There are a number of nuclear 10mm guys over on the GT forums that have switched to Rowland and .45 Super due to the greater stopping or "effectiveness" of these rounds.

Frankly to me, the Glock conversion would make more sense (I guess I am just not as "attached" to most of my Glocks as my 1911's), but the "permanent" comp makes that problematic in the Glock configuration. Given the softer feel of the Glock's polymer frame, less monetary value lost for a "looser" gun, maybe going the ported 6" barrel route with a G21 would make a decent compromise for the Rowland.

Rowland is a seductive notion, but it is also just lot of energy to harness for an auto loader. Again, not trying to talk anyone out of doing it, just don't grab one of your Wilson Combat's for the conversion...