.40 S&W on it's way out for LE?

[meaty-btz]

Hehe, I run 357SIG in my SD gun.

.40/9mm/.45 don't talk to me about recoil...

44mag, .500mag, yeah that is recoil..

Everything else is tameable.

As far as "expansion".. 110gr speer hot core .30(.30 carbine rifle round) in 7.62x25 will expand to about 1" in gel with a velocity of about 1350.

Guns are guns, pistols are pistols. A proper pistol grip will turn you hands and arms into a recoil management system. Most people have improper grip and "feel" more recoil than they should.

Training is more important than size. All of the pistol cals from .30 to .45 can put a human down reasonably well with a good bullet and the right placement.

The other problem is sensitivity to muzzle blast and that is a training issue. You get used to it. 357SIG (full power, 1495/1500fps)next to a wall stall at an indoor range will ring your bell pretty good. I don't even notice it these days.

The problem with the .357SIG in Sactowns posting is it is the "down-loaded" lawyer version. Full power is at least 1450, and I have sever boxes of defensive ammo that clocks in between 1496-1510. Not +P. Totally controllable. Muzzle blast makes liberals wet themselves miles away.

[iMigraine]

At the risk of sounding rude, all the calibers beside the 10mm kinda look like vaginas. And the 10mm looks like a mushroom cloud.

[Mauserguy]

"There isn't a .40 S&W +P. It's already a high pressure round."



Actually, there is. 40S&W +P loads are becoming more common. Buffalo bore is leading the way:

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=115

Also, the Saami pressure speck for the 9MM and the 40S&W are the same. The 40 is no more high pressure than the 9MM (see SAAMI.ORG). That is an internet myth.

Will a 40S&W batter a gun more than the 9MM, probably, it's a heavier bullet at the same pressure, often fired from the same pistol frames. I won't argue against that point. Regardless, I think it's a good compormise.
Mauserguy

[advocatusdiaboli]

Guns are guns, pistols are pistols. A proper pistol grip will turn you hands and arms into a recoil management system. Most people have improper grip and "feel" more recoil than they should.

Training is more important than size. All of the pistol cals from .30 to .45 can put a human down reasonably well with a good bullet and the right placement.

That is why I settled on 9mm for future purchases as my personal decision. The differences are negligible in the field between all three and less powder and bullet is needed to achieve the goal meaning: less cost in components, more rounds for the weight in the mag, and easier to find on the market. It's a tool not a lifestyle or religion for me and I want an economical effective pistol and round.

Now if we aren't talking effective pistol defense but fun to shoot. I'd say use all 4.

[Carcassonne]

At the risk of sounding rude, all the calibers beside the 10mm kinda look like vaginas. And the 10mm looks like a mushroom cloud.

That is a Rorschach ballistic gel test. You passed.

Watch this video starting at the 2:45 minute mark. See if that section looks familiar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2KhI7aHLqU

.

[Squidward]

Interesting, but not surprising. Previous posters have covered why this may be happening but I'll add that this move will probably affect only the line personnel and that specialty units will most likely continue to use calibers meeting their specific needs.

Oh, and I'll be waiting for the FBI to next announce that they will be going back to the 38 Special +P 158gr Semi Wad Cutter Hollow Point.

[neouser]

So basically, when the FBI switches up to a 40 S&W or back down to a 9mm, it's just hype. But when they set ammunition testing requirements (12" to 18" of penetration into gel and positive expansion after passing through barrier), it is a universal standard.

People need to decide if they want to treat LE/Mil weapons and ammunition selection as a religion or a political agenda.

[Capybara]

It's a total political agenda. Anything that tax dollars are wasted on is always driven by the power holders, not the people who are actually required to bet their lives on such things.

[desert dog]

I was under the impression military could not use expanding hollow points because it was not "ethical" for war. We have to follow stupid war rules which is why the military wants larger calibers for larger projectiles.

There is a great deal of misinformation circulating about this, even within our own government and high-ranking military officials.

The United States never signed the portion of the Hague Convention agreement. But what was signed by other nations consisted of the following language;

The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions.
The present Declaration is only binding for the Contracting Powers in the case of a war between two or more of them.
It shall cease to be binding from the time when, in a war between the Contracting Powers, one of the belligerents is joined by a non-Contracting Power.

Even though we NEVER agreed to this, the United states does its best to comply with the NATO stance of not using expanding bullets in warfare between nations. But, it is overwhelmingly understood by all nations that they can be used to full effect in the war against "terrorists". SOF almost always deploy with HP ammo in their sidearms for the "war on terror".

Bottom line; the United States military's refusal to issue hollowpoint ammunition to troops is a self-imposed rule rather than a contractual obligation.

[Che762x39]

Correctamundo.

67% of LE carry a .40 S&W. Some people should smell the coffee and wake up.