What self defense ammo does?

[wp50]

The Fresno police department and the sheriffs use? I read that we should use the same ammo that our local police force uses.

[Snoopy47]

Do you have a link from where you read that?

Use whatever.

I think shooting someone with the same ammo as the SSO/PD shows you researched it enough to think about the possibility of shooting someone down the road that you wanted to be sure you could articulate "hey, don't blame me, it's the same ammo as local LEO's", verses just buying quality defensive ammo that is available locally.

But that's splitting hairs.

You should focus on articulating WHY you SHOT someone, not why you shot them with Brand X over Brand Y.

[A-J]

Without knowing what your local laws say, I would guess that, as long as you use ammo that is not illegal in CA (like AP rounds) then you should be fine. I'm further guessing that the type of ammo matters far far less than why you shot the guy.

[PowMeow]

contrary to popular opinion, tax dollars dont always support the best product.

[Malaprop14]

Has nothing to do with BRAND specifically if you ask me; it has to do with it not overpenetrating in an urban setting. Ideally you want it to take down the target and not pass through and continue on.

[nikki#2]

The Fresno police department and the sheriffs use? I read that we should use the same ammo that our local police force uses.

LE has different requirements than you. Their ammo must penetrate glass auto windshields, steel car doors, etc....
and generally speaking, they are using full-size police pistols.

You have a Shield, right? Me too. We have the added requirement of proper penetration and maximum expansion from a short-barreled pistol.

Check out these two videos. The first tests ammo designed for LE thru a short barrel. Then check out the second. That's my choice
for my Shield: 1) It's runs reliably, 2) it's accurate.

Check out his other tests for other choices and other calibers.

[neomedic]

What is the standard issue FBI round for 9mm and 40SW? Out of a full size pistol?

[Lead Waster]

contrary to popular opinion, tax dollars dont always support the best product.

Which is fine, since it's OUR money they are spending. Hopefully, the shoot reloads in training and buy factory rounds in bulk for duty.

I mean, I want cops to have reliable ammo, but I don't want to be paying for fancy stuff either.

[J.D.Allen]

FBI uses Ranger Bonded. But I bet the agents don't know that. I doubt the beat cops know exactly wht they're shoting either.

[Lead Waster]

LE has different requirements than you. Their ammo must penetrate glass auto windshields, steel car doors, etc....
and generally speaking, they are using full-size police pistols.


...

Uh, OK, disregard my post then, I was hoping cops just bought cheap stuff since we're footing the bill, I didn't know they had extra requirements.

[floogy]

I used tnoutdoors9 on Youtube. His videos are excellent. Sure, people will say ballistics gelatin doesn't mean anything in the real world but it's really the best we have to get consistent tests. I use the same criteria as the FBI basically. 12-18" of penetration, reliable feeding and expansion. Most premium 9mm and up defense ammunition will do that. Less than 12" might be slightly less than needed, more than 18" is just a waste of the bullet's energy. Test the ammo in your gun to ensure proper function. I picked Federal HST after doing some homework.

I avoid the low end defense ammo just because they don't seem to expand as reliably. I also avoid frangible ammo because it lacks even the minimum penetration needed for reliable stops. Gold Dot, Golden Sabre, HST, SXT and Critical Duty/Defense are what I consider "premium" defense ammo. Stay within those types and you'll find something. Expect to pay between $.50-1.00 per round for this ammo. You only need 50-100 rounds though.

[J.D.Allen]

Which is fine, since it's OUR money they are spending. Hopefully, the shoot reloads in training and buy factory rounds in bulk for duty.

I mean, I want cops to have reliable ammo, but I don't want to be paying for fancy stuff either.

Nope. They practice with duty ammo.

[J.D.Allen]

I used tnoutdoors9 on Youtube. His videos are excellent. Sure, people will say ballistics gelatin doesn't mean anything in the real world but it's really the best we have to get consistent tests. I use the same criteria as the FBI basically. 12-18" of penetration, reliable feeding and expansion. Most premium 9mm and up defense ammunition will do that. Less than 12" might be slightly less than needed, more than 18" is just a waste of the bullet's energy. Test the ammo in your gun to ensure proper function. I picked Federal HST after doing some homework.

I avoid the low end defense ammo just because they don't seem to expand as reliably. I also avoid frangible ammo because it lacks even the minimum penetration needed for reliable stops. Gold Dot, Golden Sabre, HST, SXT and Critical Duty/Defense are what I consider "premium" defense ammo. Stay within those types and you'll find something. Expect to pay between $.50-1.00 per round for this ammo. You only need 50-100 rounds though.

HST and Gold Dot are about the best out there right now depending on caliber and weight. SXT is old technology and has been replaced with Ranger T or PDX1. Hornady critical defense/duty, not so much. I watch Tnoutdoors9 videos too but there are problems with his testing protocols.

1. He doesn't use calibrated ballistics gel, he uses a synthetic version which is close but is not the same.

2. He only fires one round of each load tested.

3. He only does the heavy denim test. He doesn't test rounds in bare gel, or through any intermediate barriers.

If you want the real scoop on ammo performance look up DocGKR on pistol-forum.com. He does the real testing for many law enforcement agencies and is a bona fide expert on the subject of terminal ballistics.

[ruchik]

The Fresno police department and the sheriffs use? I read that we should use the same ammo that our local police force uses.

It doesn't matter what they use. Or anyone else uses, for that matter. You need to be using the ammo that YOUR gun works the best with. That could be ball ammo if you have to, as long as you know it'll be accurate and reliable.

[neomedic]

FBI uses Ranger Bonded. But I bet the agents don't know that. I doubt the beat cops know exactly wht they're shoting either.

Is that same round as the civilian PDX1 from winchester? If so, I might pick up a box of 20 to test on some of my pistols.

Everywhere I look for the 50 round box of RA9B or RA40B is sold out!!!