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When asked what qualities he most valued in his generals, Napoleon said, "give me lucky ones." -
Im leaning away from 45 super as the meplat diameter of the 200gr doubletap is bigger than the 255gr underwood 45 super. I know 45 super has more power but I can buy as much doubletap 200gr wfngc as I want. If someone like doubletap loaded the wide meplat beartooths ~ 250gr in 45 super id get it over the 10 mm.just happy to be here. I like talking about better ways to protect ourselves.
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In fact, it was your post in my thread that pointed me in the direction of .45 Super, having previously never heard of it. Can't wait to put a few through my 30s when I finally get it. Will do some back to back with my brother's Gen 4 G20.Comment
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Get the G-20
10MM rocks!sigpicNRA Benefactor MemberComment
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IIRC, I don't believe you can shoot .45 Super through a regular .45 ACP gun without doing a conversion (fully supported barrel, new guide rod and spring). You could, but it isn't advised. Even if the gun doesn't blow up, you could shorten the life dramatically.
Also, it's hard enough to find 10mm ammo. It's even worse trying to find .45 Super or .460 Rowland. Basically you'd have to reload."Show me a young conservative and I'll show you a man without a heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you a man without a brain." - Sir Winston Churchill
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" - Senator Barry GoldwaterComment
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Don't tweek it
Maybe not tweeking the gun or the ammo will make a difference. I shoot double tap 10mm ammo out of my Gen4 G20 and it hasn't had any problems. I just recently bought some factory ammo for it that will probably be under strength and don't know how it will handle those. And I ordered a Barsto Match Target barrel that I will have to have fitted into the gun, and I don't know how that might effect reliability. But other than that my G20 is great.
I also love my Gen3 G21 and wouldn't mind at all having a Gen3 G20. The only reason I bought a Gen4 G20 was because I was retiring from my job as a State Parole Agent and took advantage of my peace officer status during the last month.Comment
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Why would someone pick the G30S over the regular G30? Smaller hands?Comment
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With your situation, get the G20 Gen4.
You can always get a G29SF to match caliber and then later on, get a G30s or G36 upper and G30 mags. For a fact, people has done it if you google it or look at glocktalk.com
On the same token, I think (and please take it with a grain of salt until proven fact) that you can get a G41 or G21 Gen4 upper and mags to shoot .45ACP off that said G20 Gen4 frame.
Thinner slide and a little bit handier for carry?
If you're talking the SF models, then yeah, there are those who have smaller hands or prefer the feel of the shorter grip over the regular G30 grip. The 30s is just a combo of SF frame and G36 slide.
G30s slide = G36 slide.Last edited by BHPFan; 07-14-2014, 5:21 AM.They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
~ Benjamin FranklinComment
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Shooting 45 Super out of any modern 45 Auto gun is not going to blow anything up.
If you call using a heavier recoil spring a "conversion", then yes, you may need to run a heavier RSA. On my single spring Glocks and 1911's, I use a 22lb recoil spring (and heavier main spring on the 1911). On my multispring Glocks (Gen 4 style RSA), I have not needed to go heavier to keep the slide from banging the frame.
On the subject of shortening service life, I think there is little doubt that the hotter the ammo you run, the shorter the service life of any gun. On my Glocks, as long as I get the right weight RSA, I have not seen any ill effects. On my 1911's that I shoot 45 Super, the gun I have shot the most from (>2K rounds) I have noticed the slide to frame fit is looser. How much looser than it would have been with say 2K of 45 Auto or 45 Auto +P, I can't say, but it is enough that I don't shoot 45 Super from any of my expensive 1911's.
On the availability of ammo, I have to say I am a little less sensitive to this because I reload all my ammo, but both Underwood and Buffalo Bore offer 45 Super, so you can get it, if you don't reload. But for anyone considering either a 45 Super or 10mm option, I would strongly suggest learning to reload. You can not only cut the cost of shooting dramatically for these calibers, you can also create loads that fit exactly what you want to do with the gun. Not the "nuclear hot" or "limp noodle" proposition of current commercial offerings.
Anyway, anyone doubting the above assertions need only go to Underwood's site and read the reports from guys shooting their 45 Super ammo. Guys with XD's, Glocks and 1911's all giving it resounding endorsements. Anyone interested in loading 45 Super can go over to the GT Forums and look up the 45 Super thread. Lots of very experienced reloader's posting their l45 Super load results.
Sorry for the hijack, just needed to clear a few things up.When asked what qualities he most valued in his generals, Napoleon said, "give me lucky ones."Comment
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I don't reload so .45 super or .460 rowland is not going to work for me.
I know 10mm is expensive, but it's just to have so I'm ok with a hundred rounds each outing at the range.
Looks like more than a few don't have issues with their gen4 G20. I think i'm starting to lean towards the gen4 G20.Comment
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My favorite all around "utility" gun is my G29SF, with the full sized G20SF close behind, so I don't think you will regret getting the Gen4 G20. The good news is even if you get some feed issues with hot ammo, the fix has generally been springs (either recoil or mag), so getting it to work is not a gunsmith kind of thing.
One of the regulars on the GT forum 10mm threads, did have some frame battering with his Gen 4 G20 when shooting Underwood, so keep an eye on the frame just ahead of the slide lug (where the bottom front of the slide contact the frame under hard recoil). Most report no frame battering with the Gen 4 RSA and my Glocks that have that style RSA have not had any frame battering (and I load above Underwood levels), but it is still a good idea to keep an eye on it.
Have fun.When asked what qualities he most valued in his generals, Napoleon said, "give me lucky ones."Comment
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I've never had a problem finding bulk 10mm for between 35 and 40 cents per round. You have to wait for the sales and availability - which isn't often. But when it presents itself - jump! Keep in mind that bulk 10mm is loaded similar to .40.
The hotter more expensive stuff isn't hard to find."Show me a young conservative and I'll show you a man without a heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you a man without a brain." - Sir Winston Churchill
"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" - Senator Barry GoldwaterComment
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^^^THIS...
Go with a Gen 4 G29 with an extended barrel and use G20 mags and it'll be the same as the G20. Plus you could just use G29 mags and go back to the stock length barrel if you want and it's now smaller package although I don't think the extended barrel on my Gen 4 G29 detracts the compactness of the gun when using regular G29 mags.
Swap in a wolff guide rod and 21lbs recoil spring and felt recoil is reduced dramatically from the stock 17-18lbs recoil spring.
My "warm" 180gr XTP load using 9.7grains longshot & CCI magnum primers has a 1303fps ave. velocity, 5.5fps SD and a 13fps ES out of the 4.6" extended G29 barrel. No signs of pressure, bulged brass, flattened primers, etc... probably can push it further if I want but I'm happy with it and the accuracy and recoil is not bad at all with the 21lbs spring.
Fred R.Last edited by fredr1980; 07-14-2014, 10:14 PM.Comment
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I have gone to 10.0 gr of Longshot before I started seeing smiles and radial cracks down by the case head. I could get to similar velocities to 10gr of LS with 800x, but with no smiles/cracks and the cases looking generally better. After I used up the one bottle I decided I was done with 800x, way too much work the way it meters.
My favorite 10mm powder for 180gr jacketed is VV-3N38, with N105 a close second. Meters great and essentially no muzzle flash with all the velocity of LS.
Felt recoil is a funny thing, I always feel I am getting less recoil with the stock springs. I only go heavier to keep the slides off the frame.
PS - All of the above is with stock barrels, probably could have gone a little farther with Longshot with an AM barrel.When asked what qualities he most valued in his generals, Napoleon said, "give me lucky ones."Comment
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