AR Pistol Question.

[kmixxed213]

I don't see how they can just prosecute you based on "feelings", I just think that they will not prosecute you because if they do, and you end up winning it will then set a precedent for future trials throwing out any future prosecutions.
About this matter.
Lol who wants to go first lol..

[Quiet]

Great info on the subject, so in other words it's up to the DA to determine if the SB15 BRACE is a brace or a considered a Stock? I don't see how they could say it's a stock if the ATF which is a Federal agency classifies it as a Brace. That's my WhoHa with those that say it's a stock. Has anyone ever tried to get a letter confirming any of this with the CA DOJ?

Because CA laws state a handgun can also be classified as a SBR/SBS and CA case laws have established that firearms that are not considered SBR/SBS under Federal laws can be considered SBR/SBS under CA laws.

[kmixxed213]

Ok, but I thought that was the whole reason for the SB15 Brace so it would not be classified as a stock and to avoid paying the $200 tax stamp that applies for the SBR, Granted that CA does not allow for a person to have a SBR. This is a loop hole for all Free States that allow SBR's. On a other note, I remember when people mounted the CMMG stock Riser to their buffer tubes to obtain a better cheek weld no one threw there arms up in the air when that was happening and continue to do so.
Thanks for the info.

[djflash]

It pertains to the Law Tactical folding mechanism.

Under CA laws...

There is no minimum overall length requirement for handguns.
Therefore, installation of just the folding mechanism on a handgun does not violate any CA laws.
Installing items onto the buffer tube may violate CA laws depending on what the item is.

There is a minimum overall length requirement for rifles and for semi-auto centerfire rifles.
With it installed and folded on a rifle, the overall length needs to be 26" or greater. If not, it will be considered a SBR under CA laws.
With it installed and folded on a semi-auto centerfire rifle, the overall length needs to be 30" or greater. If not, it will be considered an assault weapon under CA laws.

While I'm not disagreeing with you on this I'm just curious if it could be argued that a semi-auto centerfire rifle is no longer capable for semi-auto firing with the stock folded. While I don't know the exact definition of bolt action or a non semi-auto rile but this seems to fit the bill to me as it would have to be unfolded and manually cycled to load a new round. I also assume this could be a valid argument since I have never heard of any restrictions in converting a rifle from manual/bolt to semi-auto function other than OAL etc.

[Quiet]

While I'm not disagreeing with you on this I'm just curious if it could be argued that a semi-auto centerfire rifle is no longer capable for semi-auto firing with the stock folded. While I don't know the exact definition of bolt action or a non semi-auto rile but this seems to fit the bill to me as it would have to be unfolded and manually cycled to load a new round. I also assume this could be a valid argument since I have never heard of any restrictions in converting a rifle from manual/bolt to semi-auto function other than OAL etc.

If it hadn't been for convictions of people possessing "broken" assault weapons (semi-auto rifles with restricted features that were "broken" so they could not operate as a semi-auto), I would disregard the 30" overall length requirement and abide with the 26" minimum overall length requirement.

[djflash]

If it hadn't been for convictions of people possessing "broken" assault weapons (semi-auto rifles with restricted features that were "broken" so they could not operate as a semi-auto), I would disregard the 30" overall length requirement and abide with the 26" minimum overall length requirement.

That's good to know.

Do you think this would hold water? My legal argument would be that this folding adapter is intended by design to change the function of a rifle from semi-auto to non semi-auto when folded vs a broken evil feature was by its designed intent a banned feature and just because it's is broken or not functioning correctly doesn't negate it's intended purpose. I would support this position by arguing that if I replaced my upper with a bolt action upper it is no longer semi-auto as well as a SSE pistol at time of DROS is not semi-auto even though it can be changed.

[Quiet]

That's good to know.

Do you think this would hold water? My legal argument would be that this folding adapter is intended by design to change the function of a rifle from semi-auto to non semi-auto when folded vs a broken evil feature was by its designed intent a banned feature and just because it's is broken or not functioning correctly doesn't negate it's intended purpose. I would support this position by arguing that if I replaced my upper with a bolt action upper it is no longer semi-auto as well as a SSE pistol at time of DROS is not semi-auto even though it can be changed.

It was not designed with the intent to shoot it while folded.
The manufacturer even warns not to shoot the firearm while folded, because doing so will damage the folding mechanism and firearm.
Hence the argument for "broken" assault weapon.

[prmay]

Found this online. If the magazine was NOT removable and it had no strap what legal repercussions could someone expect?

uploadfromtaptalk1411161990963.jpg

[bohoki]

its intended use is an arm brace like a bipod's intended purpose is to rest a gun above on a surface you can pick up the gun and hold a bipod leg like it is a vertical grip and not break the law because that is not what it "is"

you should be able to swing your arm brace out of the way for more compact storage and shooting comfort

if you happen to rest the arm brace on your shoulder it doesn't make it a buttstock any more than putting a hotdog in a hamburger bun makes it a hamburger patty

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leapers-UTG-Rifle-Side-Folding-Stock-Adaptor-TL-K7FAD01-/380957468148

[djflash]

its intended use is an arm brace like a bipod's intended purpose is to rest a gun above on a surface you can pick up the gun and hold a bipod leg like it is a vertical grip and not break the law because that is not what it "is"

you should be able to swing your arm brace out of the way for more compact storage and shooting comfort

if you happen to rest the arm brace on your shoulder it doesn't make it a buttstock any more than putting a hotdog in a hamburger bun makes it a hamburger patty

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leapers-UTG-...-/380957468148

I don't understand why people on this site keep trying to explain why a Sig brace is legal and justify it. People it has NOTHING to do with logic or what you THINK or the ATF. This is simply a CA DOJ issue. If CA DOJ says it's illegal to shoulder an AR pistol or shoulder an AR pistol with a Sig brace then it's illegal until someone sues them. There's no reason to debate it, if you think it's legal then go ahead but others much smarter than you or I have consistently stated that the CA DOJ views shouldering an AR pistol with a Sig braces as a CA SBR felony violation.

[bohoki]

I don't understand why people on this site keep trying to explain why a Sig brace is legal and justify it. People it has NOTHING to do with logic or what you THINK or the ATF. This is simply a CA DOJ issue. If CA DOJ says it's illegal to shoulder an AR pistol or shoulder an AR pistol with a Sig brace then it's illegal until someone sues them. There's no reason to debate it, if you think it's legal then go ahead but others much smarter than you or I have consistently stated that the CA DOJ views shouldering an AR pistol with a Sig braces as a CA SBR felony violation.

so by that logic does holding a bipod leg make it a vertical foregrip too?

[ke6guj]

so by that logic does holding a bipod leg make it a vertical foregrip too?

perhaps if CADOJ specifically stated that does not.

but could not be considered forward pistol grips, such as sling swivels,
bipods and monopods, palm rests, etc

[djflash]

so by that logic does holding a bipod leg make it a vertical foregrip too?

Maybe who knows I bet an overzealous DA could make the case and I'm sure the DOJ would agree. Call them and find out. But all of this is neither here nor there it has nothing to do with my logic but that of the DOJ. Feel free to keep debating but nothing you think or wish to believe matters.

What if the DOJ suddenly said COE+FFL03 holders aren't exempt from the 1 in 30 day handgun rule, even though the plain English read of the PC says otherwise?? Guess what this is exactly what happened and it became illegal over night. CGF has a pending lawsuit and until it's resolved in court it IS illegal and someone could be prosecuted and at a bare minimum denied your DROS due to more than 1 in 30 day purchase. So you shouldn't put anything past them.

[dfletcher]

Does anyone know the Legality of putting a Law Tactical gen2 folding stock adapter on AR Pistol buffer tube?

Thanks.

I think some folks have misinterpreted your question - and gone on to other issues which while interesting, don't answer the question.

Being nothing more than a hinged folding device I think attaching the LT adapter would be legal. If for some reason you want to swing the AR pistol buffer tube out of the way, have at it. BTW, I have one of these on a 16" 7.62X39 AR rifle. To prevent it from folding (in CA my AR comes in at 27", I neuter the folding part) just unsrew the horizontal screw and drop in an 8 penny finish nail. Reassemble and it keeps the device from unfolding.

Do you intend to attach the Sig arm brace to it?

[dfletcher]

My legal argument would be that this folding adapter is intended by design to change the function of a rifle from semi-auto to non semi-auto when folded vs a broken evil feature was by its designed intent a banned feature and just because it's is broken or not functioning correctly doesn't negate it's intended purpose.

I think you've unintentionally defeated your own argument. Because when used folded, the thing breaks.

And single shot use is not the intent of the manufacturer. They go to some lengths, in writing and on video, advising to not shoot the thing when folded, that parts break and injury may result. Making a semi AR a single shot isn't their goal.