Armed Citizen Analysis

[Ironchef]

I did a couple searches to no avail, so here goes...

I saw this on the M&P forum and thought I'd share it here since it shows some interesting stats and info regarding use of a weapon by private citizens. This is an interesting study the NRA has done collecting some data between 1997 and 2001 (be nice to see something new, I know).

I'll just paste the results and stats here rather than gab about them. Looks like I'm ok not being a seasoned scout sniper or having twin .45's at the ready for HD. This article was posted in a thread where discussion arose over how many rounds a civilian needs (when CCWing or just in general for HD).

[oghl888]

Great info. It reinforces my believe that 9mm is sufficient and shot placement is more important than a larger/more powerful round.

[Librarian]

The range of most incidents appears to be short but in excess of touching distance.

A while back I looked at the reports with this question in mind. The data is not sufficiently precise to get measurements, but it seems to break down into three 'ranges':

• have no time to aim
• have time to aim
• do I really want to take this shot?

Defender's skill, defender's weapon, lighting conditions and whatnot seemed to influence the decision on how close the attacker needed to be before the defender decided to shoot; many seemed to be less than 'room length', since most were indoors in stores or homes.

[Nevermore]

Great info. It reinforces my believe that 9mm is sufficient and shot placement is more important than a larger/more powerful round.

I can't find the post, but someone recently posted a study done by at a Scandanavian summit that studied the use of firearms in combat, and noted that when it came to lethality, 80% of the factor was shot placement, not gun type, caliber or cartridge type.

[Ironchef]

I wonder where the FBI (et al) got its data to say that 21 feet is the distance to train to shoot at? If it comes from both non-LEO and LEO shooting data, then maybe they have the non-LEO shooting distance data?

I was at the CCC SO range in Clayton a few weeks ago and their ROs are now instructed to train deputies to react and shoot accurately at less than 21 feet. I want to say it's 5 yards now for them. I believe their reasoning was based on actual shooting encounters the CCC SO had where deputies, on average, were shooting at the shorter distance. And not that it was related, but they taught us to shoot SA while riding the reset on their P229s since they do this with their deputies.

[762cavalier]

I believe they train at 21 feet because of the 21 foot rule. an attacker can close and engage at a distance of 21 feet before you can draw and fire your weapon.

[Librarian]

I believe they train at 21 feet because of the 21 foot rule. an attacker can close and engage at a distance of 21 feet before you can draw and fire your weapon.

Tueller Drill....

[shellyzsweet]

I wonder how many times people flee when they hear the loading of a gun....
My guns are at my bf's house (my parents don't want my guns in the house)
Anyway I keep my sig 239 loaded and chambered in his safe just in case something goes down when I am there. I also keep my shotgun with shells in the tube, snap cap in (when I can find it) and firing pin depressed so all I need to do is rack it, and I'm good to go. My thought is the sound of a shotgun racking can be loud at the top of the stairs, and I wonder how many bad guys would simply leave at that point, rather than wait for me to come find them. But the handgun is ready in case I don't have time to get my shotgun and rack it....It would be interesting to know I think....

[tankerman]

Great info. It reinforces my believe that 9mm is sufficient and shot placement is more important than a larger/more powerful round.

Heck, the why not a 38? or 32, 25 for that matter?

[oghl888]

Heck, the why not a 38? or 32, 25 for that matter?

For me personally, it's a balance of shot placement and power. 9mm +p is the most powerful round I can rapid fire accurately. the 1911s will rapid fire fine most of the time, but usually after a few minutes of warm up. I'm keeping my 45 1911s, but I've sold all my .40 handguns, and am only buying more 9mm and 38/357 revolvers. the wife love the 627 with 38 +P, shoots like a .22lr.

I am sure there are proficient people that can rapid fire a 454 faster and more accurately than I. I am just a sissy who can only handle 9mm, but I am glad that the report says it's OK.

I may have to go to a 25 when I am 85 years old

[Ironchef]

I wonder how many times people flee when they hear the loading of a gun....
My guns are at my bf's house (my parents don't want my guns in the house)
Anyway I keep my sig 239 loaded and chambered in his safe just in case something goes down when I am there. I also keep my shotgun with shells in the tube, snap cap in (when I can find it) and firing pin depressed so all I need to do is rack it, and I'm good to go. My thought is the sound of a shotgun racking can be loud at the top of the stairs, and I wonder how many bad guys would simply leave at that point, rather than wait for me to come find them. But the handgun is ready in case I don't have time to get my shotgun and rack it....It would be interesting to know I think....

I often hear old guys (read: know-it-all types) so quick to dispel the myth of not having to aim a shotgun that they often throw in the discouraging falsehood that racking a shotgun doesn't really scare away bad guys. To which the noob who suggested it goes away discouraged. But I beg to differ with those old guys and agree with you that badguys seriously don't want to get shot/caught/killed. It's not hard to imagine breaking into someone house to steal or do them harm, and then wet yourself (adrenaline and all) after hearing the racking of a shotgun. Psycho killers might persist, but your garden variety scumbag choosing the path of least resistance would probably flee. Yes, it would be nice to see any data on that.

Interestingly enough, in the study above, rifles account for a small % of the HD weapon selection despite everyone clamoring about the shotgun with 00 buckshot being the HD weapon of choice (it isn't apparently).

[thefurball]

I can't find the post, but someone recently posted a study done by at a Scandanavian summit that studied the use of firearms in combat, and noted that when it came to lethality, 80% of the factor was shot placement, not gun type, caliber or cartridge type.

+1 on shot placement.