9mm in competition

[TopGun551]

Hi fellow Calgunners: I was going to pose a couple of questions in the "Why Buy a 9mm in CA" thread, but it was closed before I had read all 6,543 responses, LOL.

A little background: I did a little research prior to purchasing my two pistols, as I had it in mind to shoot competitively. I chose the pistols I purchased, a Glock 35 (.40) and a SA XD45 tactical, based on the existence of the "major caliber bonus" offered by at least one of the competition shooting organizations (USPSA?). My research left me with the belief that 9mm pistols cannot qualify for this bonus (at least w/o using blisteringly hot ammo). The thread referenced above devolved into a shooting match between aficionados of the various calibers, so, the point of this thread is to give the OP of the other thread something else to consider. One of the major points in the other thread was that engineering technology of the 9mm round had improved the caliber enough to make it "competitive" when compared to .40 and .45ACP.

So, here are my questions: 1. Does the major caliber bonus still exist? And, 2, if so, can the 9mm with "modern, improved" ammo qualify for said bonus?

I never actually ended up shooting competitively, thus the questions.

Thanks in advance.

[Voo]

As someone who was active in USPSA and somewhat active in IDPA, I'll simply respond with the following :

1. Yes..

2. Yes, depending on certain specifics.. Your question is awkwardly constructed as the shooting sports don't factor "terminal ballistics" when determining "Power Factor"

[wilit]

For USPSA, it depends on the class you run. If you shoot in Production, everything is scored as minor, regardless of caliber. As a newb to the sport, you'd probably want to start in Production until you get a little better. The major bonus would come into play if you were in Limited 10, Limited or Open. I shoot a 9mm in Single Stack (class is only for 1911 guns) and there are advantages and disadvantages to running a 9mm vs. a Major caliber.

My advice to you is, go with the G34 in 9mm and run Production. You can spend years in this class before becoming proficient enough to move up to another class where major points become a factor. At that point, buy a dedicated Limited gun that's better suited to the class.

[speedrrracer]

As was mentioned above, the only way to get the major scoring with a 9mm round is to shoot Open division, and that is only in one sport, USPSA.

Open division is home to all the 6,000 dollar, custom-made space guns and expensive ancillary equipment. If you want to be competitive, it's the toughest place to start.

Many people who shoot major power factor in USPSA use .40, because it's less expensive that anything bigger, it's the minimum caliber required for major power factor in the Limited, Limited-10 & Single Stack divisions, and you can handload yourself a nice, soft-shooting round that still makes major.

Since you just bought your Glock 35, and you're probably stuck with reduced capacity magazines, I'd say shoot Limited 10. Load some rounds nice and soft that makes major for USPSA, and an even softer load for IDPA.

[Leethe4th]

I never actually ended up shooting competitively, thus the questions.

.

I only just started competition recently, but from listening to the other guys and reading bits of the rule book, there is major and minor scoring (C&D's score twice the points in major as minor), major and minor floor (bullet weight times velocity), and Production is scored minor only, no matter if you shoot 9mm,40S&W, or .45acp. All steel is calibrated to fall against a minor floor.

[speedrrracer]

there is major and minor scoring (C&D's score twice the points in major as minor).

This not not correct. There is only a 1 point difference, and it's in the B, C and D zones.

Target Scoring, from http://tinymicros.com/wiki/USPSA_Scoring#Target_Scoring

Zone Major Minor
A........5.......5
B........4........3
C........4........3
D........2........1
M........-10........-10
NS........-10........-10

[nikki#2]

For USPSA, it depends on the class you run. If you shoot in Production, everything is scored as minor, regardless of caliber. As a newb to the sport, you'd probably want to start in Production until you get a little better.

My advice to you is, go with the G34 in 9mm and run Production. You can spend years in this class before becoming proficient enough to move up to another class where major points become a factor. At that point, buy a dedicated Limited gun that's better suited to the class.

Although my club, and I believe MOST local clubs (which are not 'fully-sanctioned' USPSA matches) would welcome you with open arms if you wanted to shoot your G35
with a 9mm conversion barrel in Production Division to save money on ammo.

[Gary13]

I agree with others that a 9mm in production is the way to go to start, either one you already own or something like the 34. That is the route I went, getting a 34 and eventually changing sights and a few other things, and then got a 1911 in 45 to run single stack, so that I could make a day of it and run two classes. However, as you may find, life has gotten in the way and I have not been to a competition in over a year. I am glad I have not invested too much, and hope to get back into it some day.

[Leethe4th]

This not not correct. There is only a 1 point difference, and it's in the B, C and D zones.

Target Scoring, from http://tinymicros.com/wiki/USPSA_Scoring#Target_Scoring

Zone Major Minor

B........4........3
C........4........3
D........2........1

Hey, I am new also, but I was almost right. 2 D's in major scores 4 points, and 2 D's in minor scores 2 points.

[Lead Waster]

Nikki#2, are those "Talon" grips (grip tape actually?)

OP, your G35 is an excellent choice for competition. If you handload, even better.

I have a friend who shoots Limited 10 (L-10 has major/minor scoring) and shoots factory .40 and he's consistently in the top 10 for overall score and usually top 3 in L-10, with his G35.

As mentioned, most local clubs don't mind if you stick a 9mm conversion barrel into your G35 (and ejector and/or extractor I guess) and shoot production. And you can shoot .40 in production too if you wanted to (might as well shoot L-10 though to be honest, though more people shoot production so you can rank yourself against more local folks).

I have a G35, but I admit I also bought a 17 and a 34 to run in production because my 35 is a bit "gamey", since I'm, like the 4th or 6th owner of it (!!!!). I've shot the 17 in a few matches, but since I have the 34, I'll switch to it. I wanted the 17 as a gun to run in any pistol classes I decide to take. But it will be a good backup gun for the 34.

The Glocks are great for competition. Leave it stock, except for sights. I found that the most frustrating thing about competitions (aside from missing a single steel target with 5 rounds) is the gun malfunctioning on you, you lose more time clearing a malfunction than you would have gained from some small change (IMHO).

Just go and shoot some matches, you'll figure out what's right for you later. The most important thing you need to focus on in your first dozen matches is safety, understanding/following the commands and not disqualifying. Go fast later. And I suggest shooting L-10, because you'll get major scoring and then you can see your ranking amongst ALL the shooters at the match (not just by division) in a slightly fairer way.

Have fun, and don't sweat the equipment. Really, the reason for the divisions is so that people with different guns can shoot and be competitive with other shooters with similar equipment. Seriously, if a guy with an open race gun beats you...that's fine, he's supposed to, but it doesn't count because you're not in that division.

[Gryff]

So, here are my questions: 1. Does the major caliber bonus still exist? And, 2, if so, can the 9mm with "modern, improved" ammo qualify for said bonus?

This depends upon what you mean by the questions.

If you are shooting IDPA, there is Major/Minor scoring. As long as you are using the minimum bullet diameter for your division, the scoring is the same regardless of caliber. The same is the true if you are shooting Production Division in USPSA.

If you are shooting USPSA Single-Stack, Limited, Limited-10, or Open, then, yes, there is a scoring benefit by "making Major."

If you are referring to the benefit of the hole size a larger bullet makes when the hit is close to the scoring line when shooting a "minor only" game like IDPA or USPSA Production, then you have to balance that out against the theoretically increased recoil of the larger caliber. .40S&W can be downloaded to a pretty soft shooting round, but it will still offer more recoil than a down-loaded 9mm.

Regarding "'modern, improved' ammo qualify(ing) for said bonus," this is not relevant to the above-mentioned minor scoring-only games. It is relevant to USPSA Open class, because you can get more 9mm Major rounds in a mag than you can .40S&W rounds, and 9mm Major can make the Major power threshold.

[nikki#2]

Nikki#2, are those "Talon" grips (grip tape actually?)

They are TruGrips... I like 'em, and they're popular on brianenos.com.

http://www.ericwesselman.com/store/Glock.html

[Lead Waster]

They are TruGrips... I like 'em, and they're popular on brianenos.com.

http://www.ericwesselman.com/store/Glock.html

Thanks! They are a touch cheaper than Talon grips too. I think I'll need to buy some!


Edit: Oh, the FAQ won't open...can't tell if they'll fit the Gen4 Glocks...

[TopGun551]

Thanks for all the informative replies; I appreciate them. BTW, do any of the competitive shooting associations have a senior division? I'm old and broken and probably would never score well against younger shooters.

[Lead Waster]

Thanks for all the informative replies; I appreciate them. BTW, do any of the competitive shooting associations have a senior division? I'm old and broken and probably would never score well against younger shooters.

USPSA has a senior designation. It's not a class or a division or anything. I'm not an expert, but I know that you mark down "senior" "super senior" "youth" "lady" "Law Enforcement". I'm not clear on why. Basically it's "are you an young to middle aged male shooter or not?"

Forget scoring, just go for the fun and comraderie...you'll find your niche!