Bullet Separated From Casing While In Magazine

[hambam105]

I don't know if a shooter could or could not do it successfully

I have ejected many pistol magazines of all kinds for the past 30 years or so on a weekly and sometimes daily basis. Not once did I ever unload same in anticipation that the bullet on the top round would disengage from the case for any reason.

Let us experiment:
I will set up the pistol and fubar cartridge. The object or goal is for you to try to catch the sample cartridge between 1 and 10 reload attempts while recovering half of the known powder charge. Deal?

Spend just 20 or 30 minutes watching pistol shooters on a public range. Tell me how delicately they handle pistols during the unloading process.

Who is going to find out when Federal started using plated pistol bullets?

[hambam105]

Radio talk show host, Art Bell, has thousands of listeners and makes millions of dollars a year by making claims of inside information on invisible alien space ships circling the earth.

I have no information to prove his, stories, to be incorrect.

[Condorguns]

Radio talk show host, Art Bell, has thousands of listeners and makes millions of dollars a year by making claims of inside information on invisible alien space ships circling the earth.

I have no information to prove his, stories, to be incorrect.

WTH does Art Bell have to do with this thread?

This is a value line from Federal. I have found plated bullets in this ammo going back at least two years. It is also not totally unheard of for this to happen. I have also found rounds jammed down into the case. Running the slide over this round can cause a bullet separation. I get 1 or 2 boxes returned every 4 months or so. Federal is good about replacing it.
always check your value packs, 99% of the time all is good.

[hambam105]

The OP said he didn't chamber the cartridge.

I didn't know Federal was using plated pistol bullets. Shame on Federal if that is the case.

All kinds of strange happenings occur on the Range. Most have happened before or can be explained and or supported by creating an experiment.

Has for Art Bell, if I wanted to...or...called him a liar...I better have some proof...of which I have none... that there are positively no invisible alien space watching us. Since he is the one making the big bucks as a technical advisor to movies like, Men In Black, who are you going to believe?

[Bill Steele]

I did find it disappointing that the CS person at Federal said it looked like he got a round that had not been crimped, as the possible cause of the bullet not staying seated. Only someone who knows almost nothing about how these rounds are made would say such a thing.

In a rimless cartridge (where head spacing is on the case mouth), a taper crimp is used and all that is accomplished in this process is to return the very edge of the case mouth that had been belled slightly to aid in the seating step, is returned to straight. So called taper crimping does absolutely nothing for neck tension. Neck tension is what holds the bullet in a 9mm case and that is set with the sizing die.

What is most puzzling is most new cases come already sized, so the actual sizing step is just precautionary, thus with new rounds you have a belt and suspenders kind of set up. New brass that is already sized, then resized by the sizing die in the press. How this round ever got through the process not sized is very perplexing indeed.

Anyway, it sounds like Federal is going to take care of you. I will need to hang onto this link to give to people that say they will never reload their own ammo, only shooting factory ammo, I think I like mine better...

[glock7]

Funny that I just noticed this thread, this happened to me today with my hand loads, I was at the range shooting my sig 226, loaded it up and went to shoot and nothing, ejected the round and case stuck and powder was all over the place. I saved the projectile and case, continued firing, it happened 6-7 more times. So, I went over to my ar. Went home and checked oal and I'll be dangled it they were shorter than I first measured. Not sure what happened, but I've got to check my dies and reload more and check em out at the range. I was shooting at an indoor range and powder was all over my booth, the sig, my arms...so yes it can happen.

[Bill Steele]

Funny that I just noticed this thread, this happened to me today with my hand loads, I was at the range shooting my sig 226, loaded it up and went to shoot and nothing, ejected the round and case stuck and powder was all over the place. I saved the projectile and case, continued firing, it happened 6-7 more times. So, I went over to my ar. Went home and checked oal and I'll be dangled it they were shorter than I first measured. Not sure what happened, but I've got to check my dies and reload more and check em out at the range. I was shooting at an indoor range and powder was all over my booth, the sig, my arms...so yes it can happen.

Pretty straight forward fix. Just screw your sizing die down so it is within .010" of the shellplate/shellholder. Done.

[hambam105]

Hand Loads, not factory
live fire, not inspection, not evaluation, not function testing
unburned gunpowder scatted about the floor, on the bench and on the shooter

That , that is consistent with...recreational shooting.

[glock7]

Pretty straight forward fix. Just screw your sizing die down so it is within .010" of the shellplate/shellholder. Done.

Close, I didn't realize the pin had worked itself upwards, I put it back where it was flush and and made a batch, I took your advice and pushed them down with my thumb and voila it was gtg, I checked my other hand loads and yeah I could push the projectile down, re did those and works fine. Thanks for the tip.

[Fishslayer]

I did find it disappointing that the CS person at Federal said it looked like he got a round that had not been crimped, as the possible cause of the bullet not staying seated. Only someone who knows almost nothing about how these rounds are made would say such a thing.

In a rimless cartridge (where head spacing is on the case mouth), a taper crimp is used and all that is accomplished in this process is to return the very edge of the case mouth that had been belled slightly to aid in the seating step, is returned to straight. So called taper crimping does absolutely nothing for neck tension. Neck tension is what holds the bullet in a 9mm case and that is set with the sizing die.

What is most puzzling is most new cases come already sized, so the actual sizing step is just precautionary, thus with new rounds you have a belt and suspenders kind of set up. New brass that is already sized, then resized by the sizing die in the press. How this round ever got through the process not sized is very perplexing indeed.

Anyway, it sounds like Federal is going to take care of you. I will need to hang onto this link to give to people that say they will never reload their own ammo, only shooting factory ammo, I think I like mine better...

I've heard LFCD haters say that the final re-sizing can swage the soft lead of a plated bullet. Supposedly the brass springs back and the lead doesn't, so no neck tension. If this were the case though I would expect all the rounds to be this way.

[glock7]

Hand Loads, not factory
live fire, not inspection, not evaluation, not function testing
unburned gunpowder scatted about the floor, on the bench and on the shooter

That , that is consistent with...recreational shooting.

My case looked like the op's, been reloading for 4 years and that's the first time I've had spilled powder all over the place and projectile coming out of the case before it fired. Not sure what you mean by not inspection, not evaluation, not function testing? I measure oal and case gauge everything, that's why it was perplexing to me. But I have it under control now, thanks. Ok, reading your post, I'm guessing you missed the first part of my post...OP I hope you get it resolved.

[Bill Steele]

I've heard LFCD haters say that the final re-sizing can swage the soft lead of a plated bullet. Supposedly the brass springs back and the lead doesn't, so no neck tension. If this were the case though I would expect all the rounds to be this way.

Nah, the only time the sizing ring on a LFCD touches the case on a 9mm is when you have a REALLY fat lead bullet, like .359-.360. The 9mm case is tapered, even brass like AMERC isn't thick enough to cause interference at the case mouth with a nominal diameter lead/plated .356" bullet.

If you put waaay too much crimp on, what you are describing will happen. That is the fallacy of guys saying they like to put a nice heavy crimp on their 9mm to hold the bullet. You press the case mouth into the softer lead/plated bullet and it doesn't spring back, but the springier brass does, ruining neck tension.

It is actually the biggest misnomer in reloading, the term "taper crimp".

[hambam105]

I have seen plenty of reloads STB.

Glock17:

I meant that you were out shooting for fun & recreation & training...right? And when the cartridge(S) you are using suddenly STB it comes as a surprise. And when a shooter is surprised I find it incredible that the shooter would have the immediate presence of mind to recover the powder.

At the Range, I've seen reloads crumble into their component parts while being removed from the little green plastic container. What I've never seen is surprised shooter instantly go CSI on me.

[Mstnpete]

It is not "the crimp".

It will be interesting to hear what Federal has to say, I bet a tech in CS eye's are bugging out. Make sure you tell us what they say.

Frank:

Thank you for the e-mail and photos. We apologize for the difficulty you encountered with 9mm ammunition. By looking at the photos it looks as this round was not crimped correctly but we would like to get the ammo back here for examination.


If you could package the remaining ammo and the round from the photos that you kept into a cardboard box and tape securely closed, we can have a UPS driver come to your address with a prepaid shipping label, they will not leave the label they will place it on the package and bring back here for us to examine. We do not have the actual label to send to you either; the UPS driver will print it and bring with them at the time of pick up. UPS does make 3 attempts to pick up the package and they will not come out on weekends or holidays, if you are comfortable with leaving the package out for the UPS driver to pick up, please do so. Let us know if this works for you and we will contact UPS, we unfortunately cannot pick the day or time they will arrive, UPS schedules pickups for when it best works for the driver in your area.

Let us know if this pick up works for you and we will conatct UPS and place an order for replacement ammo to be shipped to you.

Thanks
Federal
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Someone forgot to crimp that bullet!
That is why the bullet just came out.

What I said

[franklyfresh]

Just wanted to update this thread on the final message back from Federal.

Hi,

I shipped the ammunition a couple weeks ago. I was hoping to follow up on the investigation to see if Federal identified what happened with the cartridge.

Frank
We received the test results on the ammo you returned. The examiner found that there were poor crimps on the ammunition. We apologize for the defective ammunition, we are hopeful that the 2 boxes of replacement ammo that we sent you will perform as expected.

Thanks
Federal

They really only sent me one box of replacement ammo but I am just glad this thread (and hambam105's skepticism) can be put to rest. Looks like factory ammo can still be defective.