10 day wait turned 2 months, result undetermined. What to do?

[matt1840]

Me being a firearms guy i usually get calls from friends or family asking what to do from time to time.

On nov.25 2013 my 29 yr old brother decided he wanted to make his first handgun purchase. He was worried about a small DUI charge from 2005 but i assured him he should be ok considering that was his only run in with the law an the amount of time thats gone by.

Today the infamous "waiting period" finally came back undetermined by the DOJ.

The charges were not a felony DUI.

What are his options at this point?

Try again?

[S0M1L9S]

I think undetermined is new for 2014, that give them 30 more days to check on what kind/level of misdemeanor (if it is that).

[matt1840]

Even though the transaction was started on nov 25? It was a misdemeanor, no jail time just community service for few weeks an fines.

[glockmeister]

A buddy of mine was busted for DUI when he was underage. I don't know the exact charge, but i do know he has purchased firearms without any problems.

[S0M1L9S]

Yea wierd, it's already past the original 30 day pick-up (if there was one), so maybe a re-dros, but check out this letter, it states "30 days from the date of the DROS status change":

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/dros_letter.pdf

He should have been fine, but here is a list of prohibited misdemeanors:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Firearms_rights_prohibitions#LIST_OF_PROHIBITING_MISDEMEANORS

Tell you this, the CA courts is messed up, good luck!

[dachan]

There's a new law, AB500, which covers this situation. Basically, the dealer must now either submit a BOF 991, giving the DOJ 3 business days to respond with either a denial or a release at the dealer's discretion. Or the dealer must submit a BOF 958 cancelling the DROS. It's up to the dealer what to do, here's a thread with additional details of the impact of AB500 on DROS delays of over 30days.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=882281

[hambam105]

Dear Brother,
A few things I forgot to tell you...

[matt1840]

Dachan,

I know all that, thats why im asking here. I printed up that info for him to take in but it went nowhere. Im going to send him to my usual place of buisness to try again.

Thanks for the replies.

[bwiese]

OK, here's the issue.

1. THAT GUN IS YOUR PROPERTY.
2. DOJ ALLOWS THE GUN TO BE RELEASED (discretionarily on FFL part)
3. IF GUN(S) NOT GIVEN TO YOU, there are issues about property conversion and breach of contract.

Cal-FFL, in consultation with noted gunlaw attorney Jason Davis has issued the following memo:

http://www.calffl.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/calffl_memo-DROS-undetermined-2014-02-07.pdf

... which I will also extract text from here:


Firearms Dealers: “Undetermined” DROS transactions

Friday, February 7, 2014

CAL-FFL MEMORANDUM

TO: All California Licensed Firearm Dealers

RE: “Undetermined” DROS status and release of purchased firearms


It has come to our attention that erroneous information is circulating among California firearms
retailers regarding Department of Justice (DOJ) DROS determinations of “Undetermined” status.
These determinations usually follow the submission of a dealer request to DOJ on a “delayed”
DROS transaction.


California Penal Code section 28220(f)(4) states:

If the department is unable to ascertain the final disposition of the arrest or criminal
charge, or the outcome of the mental health treatment or evaluation, or the purchaser’s
eligibility to purchase a firearm, as described in paragraph (1), within 30 days of the
dealer’s original submission of purchaser information to the department pursuant to this
section, the department shall immediately notify the dealer and the dealer may then
immediately transfer the firearm to the purchaser, upon the dealer’s recording on the
register or record of electronic transfer the date that the firearm is transferred.

(Emphases added.)

On behalf of CAL-FFL and our dealer members, firearms attorney Jason Davis of Mission Viejo, CA, has
evaluated the issue and warns that firearm retailers should be mindful of the risks of improperly denying
a firearm purchaser their property.

A sale is a contract where money is exchanged for product (in these cases, a firearm(s)). Given that the
law states that a dealer may deliver the firearm, and there is nothing legally prohibiting the dealer from
delivering the firearm, the denial of the property to the owner may constitute a breach of contract and/or
conversion of property.

Unless the sale contract states that

(1) fees paid to the DOJ are non-refundable and that firearms will only be transferred
if “approved” by the DOJ, and

(2) that firearm purchasers whose eligibility is not determined by the DOJ to be
authorized to receive a firearm (e.g. “Approved” and not “Undetermined” or “Denied”)
will not have the firearm transferred to them,

jason@calgunlawyers.com or by telephone at 949-436-GUNS (4867).

* * * * *

[SB1964]

I know a lot of people that shoot & buy guns. Just my opinion, but it's usually more than "I had one issue way back when" An arrest & not necessarily a conviction often results in a DOJ "disposition of case" type thing. I can't count how many times I've heard this on my fingers & toes, just from people I know & have heard about personally.

[hambam105]

Oh! You mean that felony. But it's been a couple a years now and I thought it didn't count anymore.

[bwiese]

The smartasses commenting above can STFU.

DOJ data is now so screwed up that there are random chances of this happening - esp if your name is Smith or Jones. Add to this a record of even minor nature (and not even a conviction) - esp if categorized improperly or just data tagging errors - every court has a variety of issues.

Civil rights do not depend on incompetent data entry systems.

[hambam105]

Oh That Felony comment is not a joke.

Sorry Bill Wiese of San Jose,

People lie on all kinds of applications, including DROS forms. My apologies if this is the first time you have heard of this and are offended. But this does happen even in California, maybe in a city near you. Who knows?

Yes, DOJ does make mistakes. More than they should no doubt. Often such issues that you are referring to occur during the 10 day wait and are fixed during that time frame and the customers gets his gun out of jail on schedule.

Please remember that all DOJ rejection letters are confidential so the specific reason(s) for the rejection is between the applicant and DOJ.

I have no love for DOJ. And every Nation wide gun law introduced since 1847 should be repealed, immediately. Government's back door approach to create the firearms prohibited person class is too maliciously and politically motivated.

If you believe that I share some responsibility for the cause of your frustration with the background check and name calling is your most constructive solution that makes you feel better then I wish you well.