Sig SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace can be legal federally depending on how it's used

[KING_PALM]

I want to thank the dude who wrote the ATF for more clarification that has been discussed 1000x over on any firearms forum ever. Dude just spooked an entire industry. Congrats you turd!


Sent from my shop couch!

[gdt82]

I hope Sig sues the crap out of the ATF over this and wins.

Problem is, what will they sue over? Sig did a great job of marketing this as an arm brace. So now the ATF says it's good to go as an arm brace. If it really was an arm brace, everybody's good, right? What would the lawsuit say? They could claim that sales are hurt by the governments switching positions which scared people from purchasing them entirely, but again, if it's truly supposed to be an arm brace that's not the best legal argument.

[wenlee]

Problem is, what will they sue over? Sig did a great job of marketing this as an arm brace. So now the ATF says it's good to go as an arm brace. If it really was an arm brace, everybody's good, right? What would the lawsuit say? They could claim that sales are hurt by the governments switching positions which scared people from purchasing them entirely, but again, if it's truly supposed to be an arm brace that's not the best legal argument.

Yes your right, there isn't a case to fight right now because all we have is an opinion on paper. The letter was craftily worded to still allow sales of the brace. I'm still hoping those highly paid Sig lawyers can come up with a legal strategy to help its customers should one get in a bind over a Sig product.

[Press Check]

It is far beyond disappointing to see that people are quickly prepared to conform to manner in which they discharge their pistols based on a contradictory opinion from the ATF.

Until there is a new law that prohibits the manner in which a pistol can be discharged, I will continue to use the SB15 in ANY manner that I find ergonomic.

[infringed711]

It is far beyond disappointing to see that people are quickly prepared to conform to manner in which they discharge their pistols based on a contradictory opinion from the ATF.

Until there is a new law that prohibits the manner in which a pistol can be discharged, I will continue to use the SB15 in ANY manner that I find ergonomic.

And I'm sure you're not alone in this, might be a good idea to be careful about where you shoot it or who you shoot it around unless your willing to be the test case...if so if donate some money to your defense

[pluke the 2]

It's either a ****ing sick joke or one dumb *** opinion

[Press Check]

And I'm sure you're not alone in this, might be a good idea to be careful about where you shoot it or who you shoot it around unless your willing to be the test case...if so if donate some money to your defense

I have always been willing to be the test case. Where I shoot, what days I shoot, and what I shoot is not a secret. Policing ranges and BLM to ensure compliance of unwritten law is not going to happen.

Speaking of ergonomics, what do most AR pistols weigh, 5.5lbs? The SB15 brings that weight to 6.25lbs, excluding the weight of an optic, which can easily bring the total weight to 7lbs, less any additional accessories. As designed, and as noted within the letter, it is intended to be supported and shot with one hand. As have most end-users, I have shot the brace as intended, but unless discharged from a rest, it is nearly impossible to maintain any degree of comfort, or support the weight of an SB15-shod pistol under recoil for any discernible amount of time without quickly developing muscle fatigue.

To use iron sights or an optic effectively, you have to use the old Marksman's shooting stance with your arm fully extended, and the weight alone causes hyperextension in your elbow. If you did not have a disability prior to using the brace, you could certainly end up with one afterwards.

The point is, the moment I decide that the muscle fatigue and hyperextension are too much to bear, unstrap my forearm, and bring the pistol to my shoulder, the implication is that I will arrested for making an SBR, which is laughable at best.

[FiveSeven]

I have always been willing to be the test case. Where I shoot, what days I shoot, and what I shoot is not a secret. Policing ranges and BLM to ensure compliance of unwritten law is not going to happen.

Speaking of ergonomics, what do most AR pistols weigh, 5.5lbs? The SB15 brings that weight to 6.25lbs, excluding the weight of an optic, which can easily bring the total weight to 7lbs, less any additional accessories. As designed, and as noted within the letter, it is intended to be supported and shot with one hand. As have most end-users, I have shot the brace as intended, but unless discharged from a rest, it is nearly impossible to maintain any degree of comfort, or support the weight of an SB15-shod pistol under recoil for any discernible amount of time without quickly developing muscle fatigue.

To use iron sights or an optic effectively, you have to use the old Marksman's shooting stance with your arm fully extended, and the weight alone causes hyperextension in your elbow. If you did not have a disability prior to using the brace, you could certainly end up with one afterwards.

The point is, the moment I decide that the muscle fatigue and hyperextension are too much to bear, unstrap my forearm, and bring the pistol to my shoulder, the implication is that I will arrested for making an SBR, which is laughable at best.

[NoHeavyHitter]

The point is, the moment I decide that the muscle fatigue and hyperextension are too much to bear, unstrap my forearm, and bring the pistol to my shoulder, the implication is that I will arrested for making an SBR, which is laughable at best.

Dude.. You seriously need to get with it and hire a "gun bearer" - else how can you simultaneously (and safely - of course!) get them strapped onto BOTH wrists?

[gdt82]

I view the ATF letters on the Sig Brace much like the U.S. Department of Justice's memos on marijuana over the years. The DOJ has made it clear that they don't view personal possession of small quantities of marijuana as a top priority for prosecution, hinting that you are OK......but the fact remains that it is illegal and you could be charged at the discretion of a prosecutor. Furthermore, federal memos won't hold any weight in state court, just as state laws legalizing marijuana won't hold any weight in federal court. So you are free to smoke marijuana at your own risk, and we all know that folks all over California are doing so without a care in the world. Similarly you are free to use the Sig Brace as a stock at your own risk. And just as there is a small probability that you will get popped for marijuana possession, there is a small possibility that you will get popped for shouldering a Sig Brace equipped pistol. The difference is that marijuana possession is a misdemeanor whereas SBR manufacturing is a felony. This whole thing is indeed laughable, but it won't be funny to the guy that gets sent to prison.

[JackRydden224]

I view the ATF letters on the Sig Brace much like the U.S. Department of Justice's memos on marijuana over the years. The DOJ has made it clear that they don't view personal possession of small quantities of marijuana as a top priority for prosecution, hinting that you are OK......but the fact remains that it is illegal and you could be charged at the discretion of a prosecutor. Furthermore, federal memos won't hold any weight in state court, just as state laws legalizing marijuana won't hold any weight in federal court. So you are free to smoke marijuana at your own risk, and we all know that folks all over California are doing so without a care in the world. Similarly you are free to use the Sig Brace as a stock at your own risk. And just as there is a small probability that you will get popped for marijuana possession, there is a small possibility that you will get popped for shouldering a Sig Brace equipped pistol. The difference is that marijuana possession is a misdemeanor whereas SBR manufacturing is a felony. This whole thing is indeed laughable, but it won't be funny to the guy that gets sent to prison.

I bet you if someone actually gets prosecuted for shouldering the Sig brace Sig Sauer would pay for the lawyer fees. Financially speaking they want this things to be legal more than we do. There's bound to be a test case sometimes down the line, we'll just have to wait until then to get something more clear cut. Until then, I'll have my 9mm AR barrel turned down from a M4 profile to a pencil profile, put a free float on it and just blast away.

I simply do not want to shoulder it THAT badly. There are other things I can do that are fun and 100% legal with no grey area.

[SOCOgunguy]

I really can't believe people are worried about sig brace..

I have used it in BLM land across So Cal, over a dozen rangers have seen it and said it was cool..

I have used it at indoor ranges among LEOs and they could care less.

To each his own, at least we don't need to cry about them being sold out and having a price hike.. more for us..

[gdt82]

I really can't believe people are worried about sig brace..

I guess it depends on what you mean by "worry". The likelihood of getting popped is relatively low, but given the recent developments (did you read the latest letter?) then the outcome should you get popped is a felony conviction. This is no longer a CA specific issue but now a federal one. The ATF made it clear you cannot shoulder it or they will consider it a redesigned rifle. If you are a first time offender you will avoid prison time but you will be a felon and cannot own firearms as well as a number of other life altering things. The reason you haven't been hassled on BLM land or anywhere else is likely because until now the Feds have said it's good to go. Now they are saying it's only good to go if used as an arm brace but not for shouldering. So in the short term you will probably continue to not be hassled, but it will now come under additional scrutiny.

[SDgunner47]

Bustacaps, I agree that that is the way it should be, but the letter you cited was from atf. Unfortunately for some inexplicable reason, each state is allowed to be more restrictive on 2a issues than the federal government.

Again, the only way to insure that you will not be prosecuted for a pistol with a brace is to register it as an AOW.

Trust me. It will be worth yout time to do a form 1 or form 4. Besides having confidence in knowing you are safe from prosecution, you'll like the next option we will have for you, BUT a basic pistol may not work for this option. I can't spill the beans just yet, but it will be worth your time to get started with your paperwork now instead of later.

Sooo... this may have been asnwered but i still need to know.

I see that the forms 1 and 4 are for myself to make and register but i am confuszed on which one I would use, if either, if I already own a Sig P556xi CA version. It came with the brace(not installed) and bullet button installed. Sold as SSE and no VFG.

I am wondering if I would fall into the Form 1 or 4 category and if so, which form? OR Am I good to go and able to install arm brace and have no worries?

Thanks in advance for your help. Tried to send PM but no option to do so on your account.

[MCM]

OP. 01-24-2014, 3:22 PM "Sig SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace is legal depending on how it's used"

So, after a year of of banter and FUD, the origional post stands true.
Quite the victory. LOL LOL