Calling all P-frame builder.

[tommygunnsr1911]

Ok so I have read the P12/13 threads on this forum. My question is this. If I get a P-13 frame from Sarco is it possible to finish this frame with Hoagiem's(if he still has them for sale) frame jig and armed with a drill press, bits, and files? I know my way around tools and worked with my hands all my life so I believe I have the ability.

If so is it possible to make it into the warthog version?

also can someone help with a complete list of parts needed to build this version.

I plan on taking my time with this build and have the patients to complete. I enjoy challenges and thrive at them. That being said I also am a gluten for punishment and sometimes fail to see the bigger picture and just throw money at the problem to fix it and it seams like when it is all done the benefits of building it your self go out the window.

Next question is, I the experience P series builders minds do they think it is worth it or should I just go out and buy one and call it a day. In other words would the P-series builders do it again??

Thanks for the answers in advance and sorry my thread is all over the place ITS late lol.

[Quiet]

Due to CA's unsafe handgun laws...

Unless you have an exemption (LEO, etc.), a CA FFL dealer can not transfer a receiver/frame to you as a "handgun".

Therefore, you can order the frame, but you will not be able to get it.

[krwada]

Contrary to what others have posted here. You do NOT need to do an FFL transfer to get the P13 frame. This is because the Sarco P13 frame is an 80% paper weight, and therefore, does not classify as a firearm.

I have read that others have successfully used a jig and a drill press to complete the P12-P13. It is much better to use a mill to do this. Some observations / comments:

1. The P13 is not really an 80%. It, pretty much all Sarco paper weights are castings. There is a fair amount of machine work, (slide, barrel seat holes, mag catch), you need to do. In my opinion, it looks like the Sarco paper weights are more like 60 or even 50% frames.

2. You need to purchase a commander length slide for the P13. I do not know about the P12. Plus, the P13 has an extra wide body to accommodate the 13-round magazines. You can purchase the 10-round magazines for the P13 however.

3. Because the P13 has an extra wide body, you need to purchase some parts, (from Sarco and Brownells for example), specifically for the P13. Most of these custom P13 parts are in the trigger group and the mag release

4. The Sarco P13 auto-plunger tube is integrated into the paper weight. You need to make sure you get an extra long drill bit to properly drill the hole out.

5. As with all custom M1911 paper weight builds; you really ought to purchase the slide you will use. Each slide needs to be custom fitted to the rails using lapping compound and a huge ton of elbow grease.

6. Going the 80% route with just about anything is in general more expensive than just purchasing a completed firearm outright. However, in my opinion, there is more than just money that influences this decision ... right???

Yes ... I know this post will get flamed. I seem to get flamed a lot around here.

I hope this helps to answer your questions...

[Quiet]

Contrary to what others have posted here. You do NOT need to do an FFL transfer to get the P13 frame. This is because the Sarco P13 frame is an 80% paper weight, and therefore, does not classify as a firearm.

I have read that others have successfully used a jig and a drill press to complete the P12-P13. It is much better to use a mill to do this. Some observations / comments:

1. The P13 is not really an 80%. It, pretty much all Sarco paper weights are castings. There is a fair amount of machine work, (slide, barrel seat holes, mag catch), you need to do. In my opinion, it looks like the Sarco paper weights are more like 60 or even 50% frames.

2. You need to purchase a commander length slide for the P13. I do not know about the P12. Plus, the P13 has an extra wide body to accommodate the 13-round magazines. You can purchase the 10-round magazines for the P13 however.

3. Because the P13 has an extra wide body, you need to purchase some parts, (from Sarco and Brownells for example), specifically for the P13. Most of these custom P13 parts are in the trigger group and the mag release

4. The Sarco P13 auto-plunger tube is integrated into the paper weight. You need to make sure you get an extra long drill bit to properly drill the hole out.

5. As with all custom M1911 paper weight builds; you really ought to purchase the slide you will use. Each slide needs to be custom fitted to the rails using lapping compound and a huge ton of elbow grease.

6. Going the 80% route with just about anything is in general more expensive than just purchasing a completed firearm outright. However, in my opinion, there is more than just money that influences this decision ... right???

Yes ... I know this post will get flamed. I seem to get flamed a lot around here.

I hope this helps to answer your questions...

I did not know the Sarco P13 frame was an 80% receiver.
Could only find the complete & stripped 1911 frames on their Shotgun News advertisements.

+1 what krwada posted.

[nick]

Contrary to what others have posted here. You do NOT need to do an FFL transfer to get the P13 frame. This is because the Sarco P13 frame is an 80% paper weight, and therefore, does not classify as a firearm.

I have read that others have successfully used a jig and a drill press to complete the P12-P13. It is much better to use a mill to do this. Some observations / comments:

1. The P13 is not really an 80%. It, pretty much all Sarco paper weights are castings. There is a fair amount of machine work, (slide, barrel seat holes, mag catch), you need to do. In my opinion, it looks like the Sarco paper weights are more like 60 or even 50% frames.

2. You need to purchase a commander length slide for the P13. I do not know about the P12. Plus, the P13 has an extra wide body to accommodate the 13-round magazines. You can purchase the 10-round magazines for the P13 however.

3. Because the P13 has an extra wide body, you need to purchase some parts, (from Sarco and Brownells for example), specifically for the P13. Most of these custom P13 parts are in the trigger group and the mag release

4. The Sarco P13 auto-plunger tube is integrated into the paper weight. You need to make sure you get an extra long drill bit to properly drill the hole out.

5. As with all custom M1911 paper weight builds; you really ought to purchase the slide you will use. Each slide needs to be custom fitted to the rails using lapping compound and a huge ton of elbow grease.

6. Going the 80% route with just about anything is in general more expensive than just purchasing a completed firearm outright. However, in my opinion, there is more than just money that influences this decision ... right???

Yes ... I know this post will get flamed. I seem to get flamed a lot around here.

I hope this helps to answer your questions...

To expand on this:

The other proprietary parts (other than the trigger and the mag release) that you would need are the mainspring housing (gotta get the right length. Sarco has the plastic ones, Smith & Alexander makes the steel ones) and the main spring. The latter would be the harder one to get, especially for P12. You can make one yourself (the process is described in the Sarco P12/13 build thread), or a guy in that thread made a batch of them (but he wants $35 per).

Sarco has Para slides, sometimes with the barrels and everything else in them, for decent prices.

[nick]

I did not know the Sarco P13 frame was an 80% receiver.
Could only find the complete & stripped 1911 frames on their Shotgun News advertisements.

+1 what krwada posted.

Sarco has castings. At this point, they only have SA castings made out of some aluminum alloy, the steel ones are long since gone. Some guy sells them on Gunbroker, but he wants $100 per steel casting.

[gaberaynes]

I have the P13 frame as a future project please keep me updated on your progress please I am very interested in finish this project But just got done doing my Ares Rudius and want to enjoy that for a bit before I jump on another 1911 as for any advice or tips if you I dont have but do make sure you get a ramped barrel nowlin perferably from all the research I have seen

[krwada]

To expand on this:

The other proprietary parts (other than the trigger and the mag release) that you would need are the mainspring housing (gotta get the right length. Sarco has the plastic ones, Smith & Alexander makes the steel ones) and the main spring. The latter would be the harder one to get, especially for P12. You can make one yourself (the process is described in the Sarco P12/13 build thread), or a guy in that thread made a batch of them (but he wants $35 per).

Sarco has Para slides, sometimes with the barrels and everything else in them, for decent prices.

Oh yeah!!! The mainspring housing ... this part is very difficult to get. I need to see if that fellow Calgunner has any more of those that he made still available.

[nick]

Oh yeah!!! The mainspring housing ... this part is very difficult to get. I need to see if that fellow Calgunner has any more of those that he made still available.

You mean the main spring

[krwada]

You mean the main spring

Yes ... I meant the main spring ... My fingers got ahead of my brain there!

[tommygunnsr1911]

ok so I figured pictures would help. so I want to buy this from Sarco

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/framecasting191145p13typedoublestack.aspx

and turn it into this.

http://para-usa.com/2013/firearms/expert/warthogss.php

I would like to help people in the future with these builds so we can come together as a group and get the information. When I go to build this thing I will have a parts list and everything needed so anyone that wants to take on this project in the future endeavor , can Google it and come right to it.

[nick]

ok so I figured pictures would help. so I want to buy this from Sarco

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/framecasting191145p13typedoublestack.aspx

and turn it into this.

http://para-usa.com/2013/firearms/expert/warthogss.php

I would like to help people in the future with these builds so we can come together as a group and get the information. When I go to build this thing I will have a parts list and everything needed so anyone that wants to take on this project in the future endeavor , can Google it and come right to it.

1. You'd be better served by a P12 casting then, not a P13 one.

2. Warthog has different dimensions from a P12. So you'll have something similar in size, but not quite the same.

[tommygunnsr1911]

ok so maybe the first step in this is to get the differences or explanations of every casting and what model from the Para-website we can build from every casting.

[nick]

ok so maybe the first step in this is to get the differences or explanations of every casting and what model from the Para-website we can build from every casting.

Easy: P13 casting - for Para P13. P12 casting - for Para P12

[krwada]

1. You'd be better served by a P12 casting then, not a P13 one.

2. Warthog has different dimensions from a P12. So you'll have something similar in size, but not quite the same.

OK ... You got me ... Why a P12 over a P13?

I purchased a few P13 ... does that mean that I purchased a bunch of worthless frames? Or is it because the OP wants to do a Warthog?

Thanks!
krwada