Remington R51...Thoughts?

[Mojamz]

It happened again...after reading all the cool info about the soon to be released Remington R51 I got so excited about buying one...until I realized once again that this is California...my heart sunk. Is there any possible way an R51 which is single action only and no external safety other than a grip safety would be approved in this state?? Well, it does have a concealed hammer so...maybe??

Any thoughts??

[Quiet]

There is no "single-action only" exemption.

There is an exemption for dimensionally compliant single-action revolvers [PC 32100(a)] and an exemption for dimensionally compliant single-shot pistols [PC 32100(b)].

Since the Remington R-51 is not a revolver, people will need to look towards modifying it to fit the single-shot pistol exemption.



Penal Code 32100

[redcliff]

SSE or PPT only. CADOJ has ruled any new handgun added to the Roster must have microstamping. I don't believe the pistol has a magazine disconnect either which was required prior to the new ruling anyway.

Hopefully the Roster will eventually fall.

[Mojamz]

Microstamping? Is this a process whereby the casing is marked once fired?

[Mojamz]

Just read about it..the firing pin is engraved with the guns serial which acts as a stamp thus marking the primer with guns serial number once fired.

I can't believe this poorly thought out process has been approved...what bad guy would use a personally owned gun to commit a crime? Firing pins are easily changed. What would stop a bad guy from collecting brass belonging to others at a range then using it to defile a crime scene?

This has to be defeated!

[Wang Lung]

Welcome to the 21st century.

[viet4lifeOC]

Welcome to the 21st century.

More accurately, welcome to California.

[Quiet]

Just read about it..the firing pin is engraved with the guns serial which acts as a stamp thus marking the primer with guns serial number once fired.

I can't believe this poorly thought out process has been approved...what bad guy would use a personally owned gun to commit a crime? Firing pins are easily changed. What would stop a bad guy from collecting brass belonging to others at a range then using it to defile a crime scene?

This has to be defeated!

Not just the firing pin.
The microstamping array needs to mark the casing in two or more different locations.


Penal Code 31910
As used in this part, "unsafe handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, for which any of the following is true:
(b) For a pistol:
(5) Commencing January 1, 2007, for all center fire semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 32015, it does not have both a chamber load indicator and if it has a detachable magazine, a magazine disconnect mechanism.
(7)(A) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 32015, it is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired, provided that the Department of Justice certifies that the technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions.
(B) The Attorney General may also approve a method of equal or greater reliability and effectiveness in identifying the specific serial number of a firearm from spent cartridge casings discharged by that firearm than that which is set forth in this paragraph, to be thereafter required as otherwise set forth by this paragraph where the Attorney General certifies that this new method is also unencumbered by any patent restrictions. Approval by the Attorney General shall include notice of that fact via regulations adopted by the Attorney General for purposes of implementing that method for purposes of this paragraph.
(C) The microscopic array of characters required by this section shall not be considered the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number, or other mark of identification, including any distinguishing number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice, within the meaning of Sections 23900 and 23920.

[etherwalker]

I don't think we will see another manufacturer bother trying to build a gun that complies with California's "unsafe handgun" rules, since those rules make the guns more complex and less safe and, as shown with the SR22, CADOJ may revoke the certifications for just about any reason. Take a look at the list of Recently Added Handguns from the CADOJ.

I don't even think S&W will ever actually release the California-compliant Shield. (I suspect they can't manufacture it without making changes from what was approved, which would require adding microstamping, so why bother?)

If you want a new model of gun, you have three choices: (1) retreat to a free(er) state, (2) find an SSE-friendly FFL, or (3) wait and hope that the case goes somewhere in the near future.

[gnugung]

Hold the euphoria for a minute!

Some Remington R15 pistol, criticisms:
1. Barrel is not fixed. It does not tilt or rotate, but it is held only loosely by a pin, and it wobbles without the support of the slide. Its lengthways alignment is only as stable as the slide alignment, less barrel-to-slide slack. Same as for rotating-barrel guns.
2. The R51 does have the recoil spring coiled around the barrel like PPK-type fixed barrel guns, but unlike the PPK the barrel must be removed to disassemble the pistols, same as most pistols that lock barrel and slide.
3. With most pistols that lock barrel and slide, the barrel just drops out, but with the R51 the barrel is a bear to get out - something like a chinese puzzle. And you do need to take the barrel out to clean it. The breech opens slightly at the instant of firing same as a straight unlocked blowback, making the internals just as dirty.
4. Pistols that lock barrel and slide, have a STEEL lug on the barrel locking into a STEEL groove in the slide. Whereas The R51 has a STEEL locking block locking into an ALUMINUM groove in the receiver. This is not good seeing the locking point takes all the recoil. This was not the case with the original 1913 Model 51, because the frame was steel too, but the new 2014 R51 has an aluminum frame.
5. The R51 is hammer-fired yet denies the user control over the hammer (cock, decock). (FN FiveSeven, Keltec and Ruger concealed-carry pistols, have the same problem.)
6. The R51 is single-column yet the grip width just is almost 1" thick, which is very close to double-column territory. For example: the Ruger SR9 is double-column yet the grip width is just 1.15". (That's grip width not frame width at the safety levers.) And of course the R51 mag holds 7 rounds, the SR9 17!

FOR MORE INFO, SEE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us0G0bUSv94
"Remington 51 Part 1 of 5, Overview"
...excellent series of videos, includes disassembly of the 1913 model 51, which closely follows the 2014 model.

[gnugung]

MY RECOMMENDATIONS FOR IMPROVEMENTS TO R51:
1. Fix the barrel firmly to the frame.
2. Make the slide lift off like on a PPK, leaving the barrel in place.
3. Put a steel insert into the frame where the locking block engages.
4. Make a double-column-mag version.

[Bug Splat]

Worst looking pistol ever! I don't see one advantage it has over any pistol that's out now. I'd rather have a hipoint to be honest.

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk

[rambutan316]

Damn, that pistol's pretty ugly. Now,it's father the Remington 51, the complete opposite. One of the best handguns ever made. I would personally stick to looking for a good example of the classic.

[Quiet]

Damn, that pistol's pretty ugly. Now,it's father the Remington 51, the complete opposite. One of the best handguns ever made. I would personally stick to looking for a good example of the classic.

The original Remington Model 51 is a C&R, which makes it exempt from needing to be on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale.