What would be a "real" world amount of magazine capacity

[lilro]

Back to my question; How many rds in a magazine would cover most real world, life threating encounters? Some people with little experience may think a large pistol magazine would be better than a very usefully size.

However many it takes. Sometimes 1 missed shot will scare off a BG. Sometimes 1 shot will stop the BG. Sometimes 7 shots directly in the chest won't stop him from stabbing you in the neck. Sometimes you connect with 10 rounds and stop him, then his buddy comes through the door.

If you ask people who have been in the situation how many bullets they needed, I would wager that none of them would say less than they had.

[Shanghai Dan]

Here's an article I wrote that summarizes this very issue...

[ZombieTactics]

How many shots are needed to achieve one hit? Well, The Police Policy Studies Council found that trained police officers tend to have a hit rate around 15%. That means, on average, one of every 7 shots fired will strike the target. And that is for trained police officers, who practice rapid-fire, movement-based engagements. ...

This requires some correction.

We need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that most police officers are "highly trained" or even really "trained". The vast majority of departments require no in-service training aside from what was received at the academy. There are hardly any units outside of SWAT teams who receive training or practice in "rapid-fire, movement-based engagements".

The FBI estimates the average hit percentage at 18%. NYPD estimates 15%. That's an average which in includes all of those officers with little to no training.

Better training yields much better results. LAPD estimates a 45% hit percentage for their (better trained) officers, while their SWAT units achieve upwards of 85%. FBI officers generally operate in the 70% range.

Stats collected on real self-defense incidents, by some private training organizations (like Gunsite or Rangemaster) indicate that their students are doing just as well (85% to 90%) as the best trained law enforcement personnel.

Let us not pretend that trained citizens are helpless and cops are "the experts", as it does not hold true.

The key is quality training and regular practice.

[drunktank]

Obviously the more capacity the better, unless it gets to a point where it's impractical.

[Mr Smith]

I know I'm new, but its an age old question starting with how many rocks are enough, progressing through how many arrows are enough to nowadays how many bullets are enough?

Answer: As many as it takes to drop the bad guy.

Lets dissect a little. I have seen one well placed shout stop an armed bad man, seriously - "stop and give me the knife", guy meekly handed it over. I have also seen the results of the full capacity of a Browning Hi-Power result in the ganja induced bad man looking down at the leaky holes, turn and run. He was later found dead a Km down the road, he had bled out.

Training, practice and experience is what counts. You can couch commando all you want, read all the magazines, watch all the youtube videos and it doesn't count for anything. The honest truth is that the first time you are shot at you will probably physically piss yourself or poop your pants - fact. It is a basic adrenaline rush reaction for the body to expell excess fluid and waste when the fight or flight mode kicks in. What counters this is as stated up top: Training, practice and experience.

Bottomline: One bad man should = one well placed shot, double tap if in doubt and if you think he's wearing armour a Mogadishu. In a civilian populated world you minimize danger therefore you minimize shots. Try explaining a spray and pray tactic in court.

Prosecutor: "So, why did you fire 14 shots"?

Defendant: "Because my gun only held 14".

Trust me, its not a clever attitude in court.

Where to aim, well that's a question? I was taught to draw an imaginery triangle. Start between the eyebrows, down to the nipples and then join between the nipples. Personally, I aim at the top lip under the nose, or anywhere on an imaginery line drawn around the head at that level.

IMHO now that I'm just another civilian the worlds best training to teach you to react is here:

http://rogersshootingschool.com/

[SJgunguy24]

As I recall, civilians with CCW fire less than half as many rounds as the average LE shooting. In the area of 3-4 rounds is what I remember- though it's been awhile since I've seen the numbers, this could be wrong, but generally less than half as many as the so called professionally trained 'experts'.

If you have a price tag on every round that leaves your gun, you'd only fire what's needed to eliminate the threat. We don't have the benefit of a legal team, union, your agency, and the penal code on our side like the police do when discharging their firearms during confrontations.

[Che762x39]

Right!!!! Because I want to train how I would fight.... and I just HOPE someone is handy to yell "RELOAD!" if I was ever in a real fight....

Not as bad as the local PD practicing at the range, and using the command "GUN!" to fire.....

So..... Happen to be around a situation where cops are on edge, weapons drawn.... wanna have some fun? Yell "GUN!" as loud as you can.... see how many bullets and lawsuits go flying.....

So if I yell "GO" you will drive your car faster?

[Che762x39]

Go to a match. Any match. Handgun/rifle/3 gun whatever. Ask how often a 'highly trained' professional shoots the match.... They usually only show up once... and never come back. The typical ego of a typical cop cant deal with getting SPANKED by a bunch of regular 'civilians'.

Son, go to a real shooting. Gaming is one thing and real shootings is something else. No second place winner on the street.

[ZombieTactics]

Prosecutor: "So why did you fire 14 shots?"

Defendant: "I'm not sure how many times I fired. I simply kept shooting until he stopped trying to stab me to death."

Prosecutor: " 14 times!? Was that really necessary?"

Defendant: "It wouldn't have been necessary to fire even once, if he had not tried to stab me. Like I said, I didn't count, I just kept shooting until he stopped trying to kill me with that dagger!"

[postal]

So if I yell "GO" you will drive your car faster?

I dont pick up hitch hikers.

[postal]

Son, go to a real shooting. Gaming is one thing and real shootings is something else. No second place winner on the street.

And the matches are good training compared to a regular range just standing there stationary BTW....

I'm def not 'your' son...

but you can call me "daddy".

[Packy14]

Son, go to a real shooting. Gaming is one thing and real shootings is something else. No second place winner on the street.

did someone's boys in blue panties just get ruffled?

[NewGuy1911]

You know guys and gals, you can pick just about anyone's spirits up.

Thanks, a really great group of people.

[Sputnik]

imo a "realistic" capacity for a handgun magazine is...whatever the manufacturer designed it to hold. Did Glock design the 17 to hold 10 rounds? No, I don't believe that was the case.
It took a politician to come up with an arbitrary number of rounds they might consider safe (for the children, of course).
So what would I prefer in my own 92fs? The 10 rounds the state says is good enough or the 15 rounds Beretta designed the mag to hold...Let me think about it for a while and I'll get back to you.

[Squidward]

IMO, it doesn't matter WHAT you can have. It matters THAT you can have. And, that you know how to operate it. Reloading a semi-auto (from cover) is quick if you train.

How much is enough? I don't know. I'm not in the military or a LEO so I'd be happy to have 10 in the gun and a reload (or two ) on my belt.

Why a reload? Not necessarily for the 'mob' scenario but more in case of a malfunction.