VFG on AR pistol?

[SFgiants105]

I am currently saving the last few pennies I need in order to purchase an AR pistol (per SSE). Once I buy it, I plan on exchanging the 5.56 upper for a 12" .50 Beowulf upper. I foresee it being a pain to fire without some foregrip to help manage the recoil (esp. for follow-up shots)

(http://www.shopalexanderarms.com/Upp..._Assembly.html)

I am trying to figure out what my options will be as far as grips are concerned. I fairly certain that I am allowed to attach an angled foregrip, but I was wondering if either a vertical foregrip or a magwell grip (http://www.amazon.com/MWG-Mag-Well-G.../dp/B007I3DINI) are allowed on a pistol.

Also, in this video, they claim that their pistol with the VFG is CA compliant (citing that the FA XO-26 is legal)




Anyone have any insight on this? I need to figure out whether or not it is worth it for me to get a rail system. Thanks guys.

[jfifer]

Use a mag or angled. No vfg unless you meet other requirements.

[readysetgo]

Maybe?
There's this...

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2006/04/041006-openletter-nfa-adding-vertical-fore-grip.html

Then there's this...

http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS_XO-26.html > ATF Letter

Background:

[RobGR]

AFG, yes

VFG, no

Good thread to read: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=381738

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Wow. Just wow. We hashed all this out years ago, and the FUD continues. Unless something has changed recently, here are the rules for a vertical grip in an AR pistol:

1) The overall length MUST be 26" or greater.

2) Nope, there is no #2.

Here in California, it has to pass the AW flowsheet, which means you have to have a bullet button on it, and 10 round mags or less. But the ATF considers anything 26" or greater without a shoulder stock to be an "other", not a handgun. And therefore not subject to the AOW rules. The State of California still considers it to be a handgun, so all of the handgun rules apply. But the law against having a vertical forward grip on a pistol is strictly a Federal one. Remember people, if you don't actually know the answer, you really don't need to comment.

-Mb

[readysetgo]

Wow. Just wow. We hashed all this out years ago, and the FUD continues. Unless something has changed recently, here are the rules for a vertical grip in an AR pistol:

1) The overall length MUST be 26" or greater.

2) Nope, there is no #2.

Here in California, it has to pass the AW flowsheet, which means you have to have a bullet button on it, and 10 round mags or less. But the ATF considers anything 26" or greater without a shoulder stock to be an "other", not a handgun. And therefore not subject to the AOW rules. The State of California still considers it to be a handgun, so all of the handgun rules apply. But the law against having a vertical forward grip on a pistol is strictly a Federal one. Remember people, if you don't actually know the answer, you really don't need to comment.

-Mb

Me FUD?

eta: Ah yes, I see it now. So sorry, there are circumstances where it would be OK. Will add to my post above.

[stix213]

Thanks for posting my video lol. Yeah that firearm is legal as long as the overall length of the firearm is beyond 26". That only works because federally it is actually no longer a pistol. You can thank Franklin Armory for that find. See this thread for more details and the ATF letter. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=429106 There aren't CA law issues. Franklin Armory in a separate thread though mentions that you don't include a muzzle device in the overall length.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Sorry, but yes. You seem to have missed all of the letters from the ATF to Franklin Armory in 2011 that clearly state anything 26" or greater is NOT Federally considered to be a handgun, and not subject to the same AOW regulations as a handgun that is less than 26". Adding VFGs has been common and legal for almost 2 years officially. Not noting that in your post makes it seem like anybody who mounts a VFG on their AR pistol is going to jail, which clearly isn't the case.

-Mb

(edit) Oh, sure, now there is a link mentioning them. No fair, I was typing my response.

[readysetgo]

Sorry, but yes. You seem to have missed all of the letters from the ATF to Franklin Armory in 2011 that clearly state anything 26" or greater is NOT Federally considered to be a handgun, and not subject to the same AOW regulations as a handgun that is less than 26". Adding VFGs has been common and legal for almost 2 years officially. Not noting that in your post makes it seem like anybody who mounts a VFG on their AR pistol is going to jail, which clearly isn't the case.

-Mb

Got it, sorry. Don't know why but this always makes me freak out. Noted... again.

[ke6guj]

Wow. Just wow. We hashed all this out years ago, and the FUD continues. Unless something has changed recently, here are the rules for a vertical grip in an AR pistol:

1) The overall length MUST be 26" or greater.

2) Nope, there is no #2.

Here in California, it has to pass the AW flowsheet, which means you have to have a bullet button on it, and 10 round mags or less. But the ATF considers anything 26" or greater without a shoulder stock to be an "other", not a handgun. And therefore not subject to the AOW rules. The State of California still considers it to be a handgun, so all of the handgun rules apply. But the law against having a vertical forward grip on a pistol is strictly a Federal one. Remember people, if you don't actually know the answer, you really don't need to comment.

-Mb

Or, you spend the $200 and you get one of these pretty stamps and you can put that VFG on a pistol <26" OAL.



that covers the federal angle, and the maglock on the pistol covers the CA angle.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Or, you spend the $200 and you get one of these pretty stamps and you can put that VFG on a pistol <26" OAL.



that covers the federal angle, and the maglock on the pistol covers the CA angle.

True, but I am too cheap to spend the $200, when a 10.5" barrel and a muzzle device will bump me up to almost 27".

-Mb

[stix213]

Also OP, if you want to come up some weekend to the range outside of Petaluma, you can take a few shots with mine.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Got it, sorry. Don't know why but this always makes me freak out. Noted... again.

Maybe because we have all been told for decades that it was illegal? And until Franklin Armory actually got a ruling on it, none of us knew any better? This comes up every few months. And there are still lots of older posts from before Franklin's letter that support it. Not a big deal, it happens to all of us the first couple of times we hear it.

-Mb

[SFgiants105]

Here in California, it has to pass the AW flowsheet, which means you have to have a bullet button on it, and 10 round mags or less. But the ATF considers anything 26" or greater without a shoulder stock to be an "other", not a handgun. And therefore not subject to the AOW rules. The State of California still considers it to be a handgun, so all of the handgun rules apply. But the law against having a vertical forward grip on a pistol is strictly a Federal one. Remember people, if you don't actually know the answer, you really don't need to comment.

-Mb

Okay thanks Mb.

That is exactly what I needed to know. I read about the OAL on some other forums but it wasn't very clear. Found the ATF letter online (http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf). I guess I will just keep a copy of this with my weapon at all times.

[bsim]

Curious - how is the handguard on an AR pistol not considered to be a "barrel shroud"..."meant to prevent the user from burning his/her hand on the barrel"?