Lead in Glocks

[RoundEye]

Anyone who would typically shoots either molly coated or hard cast lead bullets is most likely an avid competitor/shooter who is either reloading or purchasing reloads since they go through a considerable amount of ammunition in a given year. With that said most people who reload like this are looking to stay closer to the power floor/factor of their division, and will not be shooting cartridges in upwards of 1K fps if they can help it (I did say typically, so there could be someone out there doing it). So with that in mind probably shooting molly coated or hard cast is OK to a point.

I know guys that have been shooting molly coated lead for decades, and have probably gone through hundreds of thousands of rounds with no issues.

[CalTeacher]

Most people that I shoot with who also shoot limited division shoot 180 or 200gr bear creeks. My G22 limited gun with stock barrel shoots all sorts of lead just fine.

[modls7]

Most people that I shoot with who also shoot limited division shoot 180 or 200gr bear creeks. My G22 limited gun with stock barrel shoots all sorts of lead just fine.

I would expect moly coated bullets to behave differently than a pure lead round. Shooting moly is not equivalent to shooting cast lead. Too many people are shooting moly bullets through their glocks and claiming they shoot lead perfectly fine. New reloaders might not pick up these differences and learn a painful lesson.

[CalTeacher]

I would expect moly coated bullets to behave differently than a pure lead round. Shooting moly is not equivalent to shooting cast lead. Too many people are shooting moly bullets through their glocks and claiming they shoot lead perfectly fine. New reloaders might not pick up these differences and learn a painful lesson.

If they aren't aware of the basics of reloading/shooting cast bullets then they shouldn't shoot them. Their lack of knowledge/experience with the subject should also prevent them from making blanket statements that aren't backed by evidence.

I shoot cast lead (my own and commercial). It works fine provided you follow the same principles as you normally would with cast bullets in barrels with standard rifling.

I think your statement about molly bullets proves my point about making blanket statements.

[Lead Waster]

Aftermarket, traditionally rifled, barrels are like $100. If you want to shoot lead, get one, just consider it part of the cost.


Oh, and would it be reasonable, if you shot a magazine of FMJ after, say, every two mags of lead...to expect some of the leading to be scraped out by the FMJ?

[modls7]

I think your statement about molly bullets proves my point about making blanket statements.

What exactly was my statement with moly bullets? That a hard cast lead round and a moly coated lead round aren't equivalent? That was my statement, and its a fact.

I shoot cast lead (my own and commercial). It works fine provided you follow the same principles as you normally would with cast bullets in barrels with standard rifling.

Many blown up glocks over on BE.com say otherwise. Some people get away with it, some people don't. I've got a scar on my right hand from where the G35 cracked frame sliced me open after about 40 rounds. Is that evidence enough? I've loaded up about 80k major PF rounds, and this was my only incident to date.

The same rounds worked perfectly fine in my LWD barrel, which did not feed LSWC very well so I decided to try my OEM barrel...afterall lead kbs in a glock are only a myth!. And in case you are wondering, a double charge with my powder selection would have overflowed the case tremendously. I put about 300 rounds in it the day before, checking after about every 30 rounds. Barrel was spotless. The next day it looked like this after my first stage in a match:



The Glock rep told me this was more common than not before kindly agreeing to replace my frame.

[CalTeacher]

What exactly was my statement with moly bullets? That a hard cast lead round and a moly coated lead round aren't equivalent? That was my statement, and its a fact.



Many blown up glocks over on BE.com say otherwise. Some people get away with it, some people don't. I've got a scar on my right hand from where the G35 cracked frame sliced me open after about 40 rounds. Is that evidence enough? I've loaded up about 80k major PF rounds, and this was my only incident to date.

The same rounds worked perfectly fine in my LWD barrel, which did not feed LSWC very well so I decided to try my OEM barrel...afterall lead kbs in a glock are only a myth!. And in case you are wondering, a double charge with my powder selection would have overflowed the case tremendously. I put about 300 rounds in it the day before, checking after about every 30 rounds. Barrel was spotless. The next day it looked like this after my first stage in a match:


The Glock rep told me this was more common than not before kindly agreeing to replace my frame.

Moly coated is cast lead. It just has a different type of lube. If you're moly bullets are undersized or not properly coated they will still lead your barrel. Thus, blanket statements about cast lead bullets in Glocks aren't true. This isn't very difficult to understand.

Overpressure causes kabooms, not lead bullets. If your lead bullets are undersized or under lubed, they will cause significant lead buildup as in any other type of barrel. If your barrel was spotless after 300 rounds, and then began fouling severely after only 30, then how on earth can you blame the bullets? I would say something else went wrong with those last 30 rounds, but of course neither you nor I have proof that you didn't over charge your ammo, seat too deep, etc. So, until you can actually prove what you're saying, you're merely speculating. Why aren't my Glocks experiencing this problem? Why am I not seeing this problem at matches?

Bottom line is that if you feel uncomfortable using lead bullets in your glock, then don't use them. That just leaves more for everyone else that does.

[modls7]

Moly coated is cast lead. It just has a different type of lube. If you're moly bullets are undersized or not properly coated they will still lead your barrel. Thus, blanket statements about cast lead bullets in Glocks aren't true. This isn't very difficult to understand.

Overpressure causes kabooms, not lead bullets. If your lead bullets are undersized or under lubed, they will cause significant lead buildup as in any other type of barrel. If your barrel was spotless after 300 rounds, and then began fouling severely after only 30, then how on earth can you blame the bullets? I would say something else went wrong with those last 30 rounds, but of course neither you nor I have proof that you didn't over charge your ammo, seat too deep, etc. So, until you can actually prove what you're saying, you're merely speculating. Why aren't my Glocks experiencing this problem? Why am I not seeing this problem at matches?

Bottom line is that if you feel uncomfortable using lead bullets in your glock, then don't use them. That just leaves more for everyone else that does.

Why did this not happen with my LWD barrel? Before and after this incident? I already told you a double charge would have more than overflowed my case making it impossible to overlook. Did I randomly grab the 30 bad bullets out of my 1500 run and shoot them that day? My LWD barrel had zero leading, thousands of rounds before, and the remaining of what I had loaded up after. So it seems to me the bullets were fine until I used a Glock Barrel.

This is a moly coated description from precision bullets. I dare you to find me a lead bullet that can make these claims. Then tell me again how moly bullets are equivalent to cast bullets.

Precision Bullets are swaged with certified 6/2 lead alloy. We then apply our unique dry-lube formula. This process completely encases the precision lead core.

What does this mean for you? Safe for indoor ranges. No leading in the barrel. Fire more rounds downrange between cleanings. Load twice as long and twice as much before cleaning your dies. Less smoke since no messy wax lubricants are used.

Precision Bullets cost only a few dollars more than the cheapest cast lead bullets, but they give you jacketed bullet ballistics.

They are clean, safe and accurate.

You can fire our bullets at over 2000 feet per second with no leading and no copper fouling and no messy lubricants.

The tough coat protects the bullet from damage and is a natural lubricant. It keeps the bullet at tight factory dimensions and goes through the bore intact.

That means no lead on your hands, no lead dust and no toxic fumes.

Even long sessions at the loading bench or when shooting on indoor ranges. It means clean hands, clean guns, clean reloading dies - and clean air.

And you get a bullet which is highly uniform in weight and dimension.

So CalTeacher,

I have my own personal experiences, pictures, and videos of a glock KB shooting lead but not with a LWD barrel with the same exact loads - a few thousand of them
I can easily search the web to find glock KBs when shooting lead.
The glock reps that helped me out told me it was not uncommon to see lead KBs through Glocks.
An engineer in published writing performs a study on glock KBs shooting lead.

And all of this is speculation? And you are correct? Since you have not experienced it everybody is wrong and it does not happen, or simply they do not know how to reload as well as you do?

I'm waiting for you to tell me that I picked the 30 magical bullets out of my batch that blew up my gun. That the thousand before and thousand after in my LWD were perfect but those 30 were not, the same 30 that blew up in my OEM barrel.

I will also look forward to you showing me lead rounds that can keep up with moly encapsulated lead. Should be a piece of cake since moly is just lube.

[CalTeacher]

Why did this not happen with my LWD barrel? Before and after this incident? I already told you a double charge would have more than overflowed my case making it impossible to overlook. Did I randomly grab the 30 bad bullets out of my 1500 run and shoot them that day?

This is a moly coated description from precision bullets. I dare you to find me a lead bullet that can make these claims. Then tell me again how moly bullets are equivalent to cast bullets.

Precision Bullets are swaged with certified 6/2 lead alloy. We then apply our unique dry-lube formula. This process completely encases the precision lead core.

What does this mean for you? Safe for indoor ranges. No leading in the barrel. Fire more rounds downrange between cleanings. Load twice as long and twice as much before cleaning your dies. Less smoke since no messy wax lubricants are used.

Precision Bullets cost only a few dollars more than the cheapest cast lead bullets, but they give you jacketed bullet ballistics.

They are clean, safe and accurate.

You can fire our bullets at over 2000 feet per second with no leading and no copper fouling and no messy lubricants.

The tough coat protects the bullet from damage and is a natural lubricant. It keeps the bullet at tight factory dimensions and goes through the bore intact.

That means no lead on your hands, no lead dust and no toxic fumes.

Even long sessions at the loading bench or when shooting on indoor ranges. It means clean hands, clean guns, clean reloading dies - and clean air.

And you get a bullet which is highly uniform in weight and dimension.

Bullet companies can claim whatever they want. It's called advertising. Moly, like traditional lube, provides an interface between the lead and the barrel. As long as the interface holds, and as long as your bullets are not undersized, your bullets should shoot fine in any type of rifling. I coat my homecast bullets with Hi Tek coating, which is the same coating that Bayou Bullets uses, and the results are great. I've also tumble lubed them with Alox, and the barrel does not lead.

I have a question for you. When a Glock blows up after firing jacketed ammo, do you blame the bullet or something else? Remember, it is pressure that destroys guns, not lead bullets. If your barrel is leading, then your bullets are either undersized and/or inadequately lubed. The fact that you have an aftermarket barrel that does not lead could simply mean you eliminated the barrel to bore size variable as a contributor to the leading. You cannot prove in any way shape or form that lead bullets caused your kaboom. You are trying to spread a doctrine based on correlation not causation.

I have been unable to replicate your results. Thus, I'd say your theory needs some work.

How many examples of guns blowing up after shooting lead bullets can you positively confirm?

[modls7]

here is a picture of a precision moly bullet heated up. The lead has a lower melting point than the moly by quite a large margin. That's some lube!

[modls7]

I have been unable to replicate your results.

Do you know what my load was? Last I checked you didn't.

[CalTeacher]

here is a picture of a precision moly bullet heated up. The lead has a lower melting point than the moly by quite a large margin. That's some lube!

It is. It probably works well. What's your point? That a properly sized/lubed bullet shouldn't lead your barrel?

Try doing that with a Bear Creek Bullet. It'll melt way faster.

Remember, just because your Glock blew up while shooting lead bullets doesn't mean that the lead bullets caused the kaboom.

[modls7]

What proof do you have that lead does not have a higher rate of KBs?

Remember, you are not a fan of correlation. So hard facts please. And do not refer me to anything published by a company, because advertising can say what they want. Please do make sure only to submit facts that you can personally confirm, without drawing any correlations.

[CalTeacher]

Do you know what my load was? Last I checked you didn't.

Well, you haven't posted it.

You are blaming the lead bullet, right? So your load shouldn't matter, right? Or are you now saying that the powder charge actually matters?

Or, perhaps you're finally realizing that there is more to the issue than you previously thought.

Regardless, you still haven't, and won't prove that the lead bullet was solely responsible for your kaboom. And since we don't know your powder charge in the particular round that blew up, the bullet diameter, bore diameter, etc., there's nothing to do but blindly speculate as to the cause of your kaboom.

[modls7]

It is. It probably works well. What's your point? That a properly sized/lubed bullet shouldn't lead your barrel?

Try doing that with a Bear Creek Bullet. It'll melt way faster.

Remember, just because your Glock blew up while shooting lead bullets doesn't mean that the lead bullets caused the kaboom.

Just because there was gunpowder in my rounds while my gun kaboomed does not mean the gunpowder contributed to the kaboom.