1911 in Condition 0

[Tee Why]

Just a quick thought.

I know most would recommend carrying a 1911 in condition 1 (cocked and locked). But according to Gaston Glock's research, he found that manual safeties may be more dangerous, as under the stress of shooting, many forget to deactivate the safety.

With modern 1911's having either a titanium pin or a 80's series pin block to prevent against discharge when dropped, assuming you are carrying the gun in a holster that covers the trigger, how much more dangerous is it to carry a modern 1911 in condition 0 vs condition 1 in terms of preventing accidental discharge? Or are there other reasons to carry in condition 1?

Assuming you have good disciple regarding not placing the trigger finger over the trigger till ready to fire, it seems like not having the safety on may actually be safer in stressful situations where you may forget to disengage the safety.

Thoughts?

[bigbearbear]

I think it all boils down to training and what you're used to. I'm trained by the military using the M16 which has a selector switch for SAFE, SEMI and AUTO. So it is natural for me when I use any firearms to automatically try to switch the gun to Fire/Semi/Auto mode when I bring it up to fire, and likewise I'm used to always switching it to SAFE when I bring it down.

When I first tried the G17 it was so confusing for me because I kept trying to disengage/engage the safety.

After renting a few handguns, I decided to stay with the safety switch option and bought a Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm. Habits are hard to break and I think I want to stay with what I'm used to.

[davidb]

If you choose to carry a 1911 disengaging the safety needs to be practiced until its a muscle memory type thing...once you have it down theres no added time to your draw.

I see the point of it being something that you could fumble on as moot if you put the practice in...you might as well be worried about using a holster with retention if you don't practice and fumble on your own equipment.

As far as keeping your finger off the trigger, great it would work, but if you can forget to disengage a safety you have practiced countless of times are you 100% sure you wont forget to keep your finger off the trigger until the time is right?

[Freq18Hz]

Series 80... Yuck.

-Freq

[Dannicus]

The manual safety on a 1911 lends itself to being easily swept off by the shooter easier than a lot of European designs. I like to ride an extended safety on a 1911, so taking the safety off is integral with my firing grip.

[negolien]

I agree with the above but I also agree with the training. I had a Glock long before I got my 1911 Custom II. I have been doing IDPA for a few years with the 1911 and I always always use the manual safety. Train like you fight is how I was taught. If you train like you fight you wont have to think about it. Dumbing down a weapon because you don't feel like taking the time to train with it seems to be a bad way to think. I have had to pull my weapon 1 time and it was my 1911. It was all instinctual to be honest. I was seat belted in the drivers seat of a car at a stop light when some road rager decided to go Retardo Mantalban on me. I had my pistol out and on my thigh before I had even thought about it. THAT'S HOW YOU WANT TO BE....You have to think about it you're ALREADY DEAD!!!!!!

[Fishslayer]

Hmmm.... St. Gaston of Polymer finds that manual safeties are dangerous. Fascinating...

[CrippledPidgeon]

Just a quick thought.

I know most would recommend carrying a 1911 in condition 1 (cocked and locked). But according to Gaston Glock's research, he found that manual safeties may be more dangerous, as under the stress of shooting, many forget to deactivate the safety.

If you look at the types of handguns on the market when Glock was developing his pistol, you'll see that many European handguns have their safeties on the slide. That's not a terribly ergonomic place to put it. But if you ride the 1911's safety like a majority of shooters, you can deactivate the safety nearly automatically as you clear leather.

With modern 1911's having either a titanium pin or a 80's series pin block to prevent against discharge when dropped, assuming you are carrying the gun in a holster that covers the trigger, how much more dangerous is it to carry a modern 1911 in condition 0 vs condition 1 in terms of preventing accidental discharge? Or are there other reasons to carry in condition 1?

Figure this: the Glock is not actually in condition 0. It's actually chambered with the striker nearly decocked. Even if all the other safeties were disabled, it shouldn't have enough energy to fire the primer if the striker suddenly dropped.

With a Series 80, you need to consider how the safeties work. The grip safety physically blocks the trigger from moving. The FPB physically blocks the firing pin. The thumb safety physically blocks the sear and the hammer. If all other safeties fail, the thumb safety will prevent the gun from discharging.

Assuming you have good disciple regarding not placing the trigger finger over the trigger till ready to fire, it seems like not having the safety on may actually be safer in stressful situations where you may forget to disengage the safety.

Thoughts?

[Mute]

Another mountain out of a molehill. How many such cases (failing to disengage safety) have been documented as the cause of a bad ending for that gun user? If you plan to spend very little time practicing with your gun, then I agree that a safety could be an issue. Anyone who plans on using a firearm for personal defense need to practice with that gun. If you make an honest assessment and know you will not put in the time...by all means go with a gun that doesn't have an active safety of some kind.

[stormvet]

When I draw my Glocks, my thumb instinctively sweeps the bare Glock slide. This is from many many years of training with 1911s before I added Glocks to the party. This is done in the early stages of the draw and will not add a mila second to it. Works for me.

[Tee Why]

Good points everyone.

The question is more academic than practical/personal for me as I don't carry a gun with me since I don't have a CCW. If I did, I think I'd carry a glock personally for it's simplicity, weight, and capacity. Having said that, I have two 1911's and two glocks along with a few other guns. I always ride the safety with my thumb as well and sweep it down as I grip the gun.

My understanding was that originally, the thumb safety was to prevent a discharge if dropped. Is that true?

[Corbin Dallas]

What would the purpose be of carrying a 1911 in condition 0?

[NiteQwill]

What would the purpose be of carrying a 1911 in condition 0?

There is none.

Basically might as well carry a porcupine in your holster. It's probably safer.

[davidb]

Good points everyone.

The question is more academic than practical/personal for me as I don't carry a gun with me since I don't have a CCW. If I did, I think I'd carry a glock personally for it's simplicity, weight, and capacity. Having said that, I have two 1911's and two glocks along with a few other guns. I always ride the safety with my thumb as well and sweep it down as I grip the gun.

My understanding was that originally, the thumb safety was to prevent a discharge if dropped. Is that true?

I may be wrong on this, but i read/heard that the thumb safety was added as a requirement of the army

[Tee Why]

davidb,
I think you are right. According to MrColt45acp, the prior designs did not have a thumb safety and it was added to satisfy the Calvary so there was a way for them to prevent accidentally firing the gun by trying to lower the hammer on a live round while on horseback.
He has lots of interesting videos that goes over the history of the 1911

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Dh6uJpwRBc4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_304399&feature=iv&src_vid=Dh6uJpwRBc4&v=ZRJ8gg0KoAY

He also mentions that the model 1905 had no safety features on it. Wow.